19 facts about the Deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind

http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-10688-0-13-13–.html

The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind….

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001.  About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.

#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.

#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina in November.  Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.

#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide.  So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States?  Zero.

#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.

#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.

#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.

#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.

#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output.  In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.

#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford’s new “global” manufacturing strategy.

#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing.  The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.

#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.

#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use.  Today it ranks 15th.

#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.

#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products.  Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.

#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.

#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.

#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.

So how many tens of thousands more factories do we need to lose before we do something about it?

How many millions more Americans are going to become unemployed before we all admit that we have a very, very serious problem on our hands?

How many more trillions of dollars are going to leave the country before we realize that we are losing wealth at a pace that is killing our economy?

How many once great manufacturing cities are going to become rotting war zones like Detroit before we understand that we are committing national economic suicide?

The deindustrialization of America is a national crisis.  It needs to be treated like one.

If you disagree with this article, I have a direct challenge for you.  If anyone can explain how a deindustrialized America has any kind of viable economic future, please do so below in the comments section.

America is in deep, deep trouble folks.  It is time to wake up.

———-

this is damning..pass these facts onto the sheep with their heads stuck in the grund..yeah we got some false dow greenery right now but its papering over massive cracks..it wont last..it cant last..

401

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~ by seeker401 on September 29, 2010.

45 Responses to “19 facts about the Deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind”

  1. if someone had controlled everything, the outcomes will be not surprising. yes, seeker?
    http://www.etuc.org/

  2. and what comes after hangover?!… are you ready?

  3. awaiting for the sequel from the author – “The Reindustrialization of America”.

  4. Industrialization is the largest f**kup ever to be visited on planet earth..

    Mosuo: Primitive Ecocentric Gender-Balanced Sustainable Agrarian Culture with no murder, rape, jails, homeless or unemployment:

    The socio-political problem solving system of the Gender Balanced agrarian Mosuo culture in South West China is plausibly the most credible system of jurisprudence on planet earth. The people of Mosuo have no rape (not even a word in their language for rape, because it does not exist), no murder, no suicide, no prisons, no mental illness, no mental institutions, no unemployment and no homelessness; as a result of abiding by (a) the laws of nature and tribal control of population and consumption, and (b) the laws of human nature, in terms of public problem solving, and a socio-political focus on root cause problem solving.

    In Mosuo culture, women are the head of the house, property is passed through the female line, and women tend to make the business decisions. Mosuo women carry on the family name and run the households, which are usually made up of several families, with one woman elected as the head.

    The head matriarchs of each village govern the region by committee. Political power, however, remains in the hands of males, creating a gender-balanced society. The traditional Mosuo religion worships nature, is called Daba, with Lugu Lake regarded as the Mother Goddess and the mountain overlooking it venerated as the Goddess of Love. Their focus is their close relationship to the land that supports them and with their neighbours, who also support them.

    TYGAE call for MILINT Necessity of Earth Day Sustainable Security De-Industrialization Coup d’etat’s; If Worlds Eco-Illiterate ‘One Man, One Vote’ Voters fail to act for a Sustainable Security future, by 22 April 2014

    • i see that codeword sustainable again..

      • Codeword?

        No, I don’t deal in codewords. unlike you I am a member of the radical honesty culture, we don’t deal in codewords, only in brutal honesty.

        Sounds like you may be a member of a culture with the intelligence of yeast, you don’t believe that resources are finite. Your economists think if they print enough fiat currency money, and turn up at Heaven’s Resource Bank, that God will put more oil and non-renewable minerals in the ground for them?

        If you do believe non-renewable and renewable resources are finite (have limited regeneration capacity), what is the word you use for requiring that humans live in accordance to recognizing that resources are finite?

        Sustainability Defined
        http://www.wakeupamerika.com/PDFs/Sustainability-Defined.pdf

      • You don’t know me so don’t assume you do. Your working for the bankers and the elites you fucking fool and you don’t even realise it. I support renewables but I don’t support your apocalyptic rhetoric,religious zealotry in regards to earth worship and extremist views on some sort of utopian bullshit fantasy world. Fuck you.

      • https://seeker401.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/australia-un-decade-for-education-for-sustainable-development-do-you-see-the-code-word/

        You use the exact words the fiat bankers and governments and bureaucracies use you hypnotized fucking moron. Your doing the work of the one percent and the resource raping governments of the west. Irony.

      • note the fetishization and exploitation of indigenous culture. classic banker/jew garbage.

      • Seeker401:

        Its true I don’t know you, but I don’t have to know you, to know that you are not a member of the radical honesty culture, in the same way you don’t have to know me, to know that I am not a member of your family. Same principles apply. radical honesty culture is a very small culture; you don’t follow its practices.

        I am working for the bankers and elites? How so?

        Many of the dumb bankers and elites also support renewables; they’d prefer to ride the civilization titanic to its peak non-renewable resources iceberg sitting in their first class cabins, right until the last moment, before they jump into their first class lifeboats.

        Which renewables do you support? What is their EROI? How do you propose that any renewable with an EROI below 1:10 (Oil used to be 1:100) is going to power your ‘civilization’? Do you know the difference between a civilization that has an energy source that has an EROI of 1:5 and another that has an EROI energy source of 1:50?

        What renewables do you propose to invent to substitute the peaking of the following non-renewable (NNR’s) vital to civilization?

        [NNR: time left before exhaustion (used for)]
        (a) Antimony: 8 yrs (used for starter lights ignition batteries in cars and trucks; (b) Bauxite: 40 years (only economically viable feedstock for aluminium); (c) Bismuth: 17 years (non-toxic substitute for lead in solder and plumbing fixtures); (d) Cadmium: 25 years; (e) Chromium: 26 years (stainless steel, jet engines and gas turbines); (f) Coal: 40 years (electricity generation); (g) Cobalt: 26 years (gas turbine blades, jet aircraft engines, batteries); (h) Copper: 27 years; (i) Fluorspar: 23 years (feedstock for fluorine bearing chemicals, aluminium and uranium processing); (j) Graphite (Natural): 23 years; (k) Iron Ore: 15 years (only feedstock for iron and steel); (l) Lead: 17 years; (m) Lithium: 8 years (aircraft parts, mobile phones, batteries for electrical vehicles); (n) Manganese: 17 years (stainless steel, gasoline additive, dry cell batteries); (o) Molybdenum: 20 years (aircraft parts, electrical contacts, industrial motors, tool steels); (p) Natural Gas: 34 years; (q) Nickel: 30 years; (r) Niobium: 15 years (jet and rocket engines, turbines, superconducting magnets); (s) Oil: 39 years; (t) Rhenium: 22 years (petroleum refining, jet engines, gas turbine blades); (u) Silver: 11 years; (v) Thalium: 38 years; (w) Tin: 18 years; (x) Tungsten: 32 years; (y) Uranium: 34 years (primary energy source, weapons); (z) Zinc: 13 years; (aa) Zirconium: 19 years (nuclear power plants, jet engines, gas turbine blades).

        Apocalyptic rhetoric? Interesting conclusions you have made, without asking many questions. What do you pretend to be seeking?

        What is your definition for ‘extremist’?

        What do you worship? Civilization? Money?

        A civilization and culture that has existed for over a thousand years, which has no prisons, no courts, lives in harmony with nature is some sort of utopian bullshit fantasy world?

        Which ‘exact’ words do I use that the fiat bankers and goverments and bureaucracies use?

        Don’t you ever use any word that any fiat banker or goverment or bureacracy has ever used?

        How exactly am I doing the work of the one percent and resource raping goverments of the west? My carrying capacity footprint, procreation footprint and carbon footprint are way below carrying capacity? Yours?

      • “My carbon footprint” lol.. I rest my case.

        I obviously touched a nerve..

        Don’t even bother trying to question me. I’m not interested. You drank the kool aid many years ago. You think your so smart but the elites have played you and your mates like flutes in an orchestra. You think your part of a movement. All movements are created by the rulers to entrench their positions. Wake up and smell the roses.

        Oh, and its carbon dioxide the gas not carbon which is a fucking element only. You don’t even know what your supposed to be limiting.

      • “A civilization and culture that has existed for over a thousand years, which has no prisons, no courts, lives in harmony with nature is some sort of utopian bullshit fantasy world?”

        yes..it doesnt exist..simple..and 6 billion people on earth will not live that way and it cannot be created..ever..

      • “(p) Natural Gas: 34 years;”

        all the natural gas in the world will be gone in exactly 34 years..wow..got a source for this doom theory?

      • xxx: “note the fetishization and exploitation of indigenous culture. classic banker/jew garbage.”

        Please clarify…

    • tygae, we have very different worldviews, but i will do my best to explain. first, a bit about those worldviews – i see radical honesty as another in a long line of pop-psy movements, each with their own distinctions no doubt, but also with similarities. whether it is erhard seminars training, gestalt theory, assertiveness training, non-violent communication, neuro lingustic programming, lifespring, scientology, human potential movement… even things like objectivism or 12-step programs. that’s not to say that each doesn’t have their points to make or that each doesn’t have a positive contribution to make – if it works to makes one’s life better then that can’t be denied. but they are still merely pop-psy movements with limited value. in my opinion and experience, the more aware people who get involved in those movements eventually outgrow them. again, i am simply trying to establish some understanding of worldview here.

      most people, myself included, tend to think that they have beliefs which derive from facts, logic, reason, and shared common experience. but humans also have tremendous capacity to delude themselves (as you well know as a member of the radical honesty culture). i have asked a lot of smart people “what is a dollar? where does it come from? how is it created?” and the response i get is universal: 1) if they do provide an answer, it is incorrect, and 2) they will refuse any book, any url, any source at all that answers the questions correctly. smart people can be indoctrinated; they can subject themselves to denial and delusion; they can engage in just as much dogma as any religionist because in the end they are human.

      i think i am reasonably smart and aware. the facts i have been exposed to, the integration of those facts with the tools of logic and reason i have learned together with the common experiences i have shared with others has led me to believe (or tend to believe) the following – your mileage may vary:

      -”global warming” is a hoax, chosen by elite ideological management groups like the club of rome. they want “global governance” enacted via economic control of a cornerstone of the lifecycle, carbon dioxide.
      -9/11 was an inside job. occam’s razor mandates that that is the most likely explanation for that day. extraordinary theories require extraordinary proofs. the US has never entered into war under non-false pretenses, therefore the official explanation is extraordinary.
      -zionism is an extreme form of violent racism and white supremacy. since zionism is indefensible without extreme mendacity, i do not trust jews – or any persons – who are not explicitly anti-zionist. (ashkenazim are technically fake jews, but that’s another discussion.)
      -whether it is freud, reich, perls, rosenburg (“earhard”) or any of a long list of jewish names, the jewish influence on western psychology is undeniable. jewish values are fundamentally different from the rest of humanity’s, and the western psychology movement has been an enormously successful vehicle for their imposition of jewish (non)values on the rest of us.
      -some, but not all, of the “peak” meme is disinformation. many resources are hoarded, others are hidden. the issue of abiogenic petroleum has never been settled.
      -i have no doubt that many resources are severely overstressed – forests, oceans, aquifers, all of it. but the primary causes – elite mismanagement, elite insistence on warfare, elite waste and extravanagance – are never addressed and instead “people” are always pointed at as the problem.

      the ideological father of your guy blanton was perls. perls went on to live and teach at a retreat inspired by aldous huxley. that retreat is named esalen after the native americans that once lived there, but who were completely exterminated by europeans. if you go to the esalen retreat today, they’ll be happy to tell you all about how great the esalen were – no war, free traders who felt a kinship and oneness with nature – as if ‘existence’ is not also a desirable human quality.

      it not too unlike a modern “jewish” restaurant. i’m very doubtful that falafel, baba ghanoush, and hummus were popular foods in the places of origin of ashkenazim jews. food is part of culture, and cultural appropriation is a form of genocide.

      one of the greatest purveyors of eugenics in the world today is maurice strong, oil company ceo, un undersecrtary, ‘peace’ university president, and ‘environmentalist.’ he works hand in hand with people, such as ted turner, who state openly that they want 80% or more of humanity to die. eugenicists like strong, turner, rockefeller, and others all own vast, vast quantities of land and other resources, yet they see the problem as being “people.”

      strong and his wife control about 200,000 acres in colorado near the town of crestone, and they have helped set up there numerous retreats and study centers devoted to various indigenous cultures throughout the world, including native american ones. again, these are people who want most of humanity to die – and have openly expressed that desire – who at the same time promote the cultures of people their own classes have been waging physical and cultural war against for hundreds of years. they promote ideas of “oneness” while at the exact same time calling for the vast majority of humanity to be exterminated.

      elite theory is a valuable but too-often overlooked sociological framework of understanding or poltical/state theory. i submit that one can not accurately critique or theorize about political power without first understanding the nature and origins of current political power. everyone’s worldview could use a healthy dose of truly ‘radical honesty,’ because the current deep levels of internalized disinformation, denial, and delusion are simply not… sustainable.

      • Tremendous reply xxx. Thank you for that.

      • Seeker:

        You do not believe in the concept of a carbon footprint, or you don’t know what it means, or what do you mean by ‘i rest my case’?

        I spent a year in prison once, only white woman amongst 40 african/coloured violent women in an african prison cell. A gang banger leader tried to pick a fight with me a few times, once she punched me in the face, for turning down the volume on the television. I simply smiled and asked her if she was going to do it again?

        Put differently, words on a screen are totally incapable of touching my nerves. Even if you actually physically assault me the first time, you probably won’t ‘hit a nerve’.

        Conclusion: ‘hitting a nerve’ is your projection; your nerves are easily assaulted by words on a screen, hence you project your experience onto others.

        I was not trying to question you. I use questions to seek the truth and to understand. Asking questions is a fundamental aspect of an honourable, sincere truth seeking discussion; at least in my culture it is.

        Its possible I drank some sort of coolaid, its a good critical thinking hypothesis to always use in evaluation of all information. However, if you are not willing or capable to honourably and sincerely back up your claims, then your claims are not credible.

        Actually.. I think the Mosuo culture and people are smart, the bushmen… cultures who have not drank the industrial civilization coolaid, to use your term. Who know where the source of life comes from: nature, and who cherish and treat it as precious for their wellbeing.

        I am not part of any movement. So what are movement you talking about?

        I generally don’t join movements, prefer loose associations and collaborations with other individuals who are issue specific unconditional cooperators (game theory/stanley milgram).

        I would agree that most, probably all (don’t know, have not researched the issue) movements are created by rulers to entrench their positions, which is why movements are led by, and followed by conditional cooperators and free riders. The elite did their game theory/cooperative theory homework.

        “Oh, and its carbon dioxide the gas not carbon which is a fucking element only. You don’t even know what your supposed to be limiting.”

        Don’t you ever ask questions, before coming to conclusions? Do you not know that the concept used to explain how much carbon dioxide your lifestyle (consumption/production/procreation) is contributing to the atmosphere is known as a ‘carbon footprint’?

        Carbon Footprint:
        “A measure of the total amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) emissions of a defined population, system or activity, considering all relevant sources, sinks and storage within the spatial and temporal boundary of the population, system or activity of interest. Calculated as carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2e) using the relevant 100-year global warming potential (GWP100).” – Wright, Kemp, and Williams, writing in the journal Carbon Management
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint

        http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx

        >>A civilization and culture that has existed for over a thousand years, which has no prisons, no courts, lives in harmony with nature is some sort of utopian bullshit fantasy world?”<>“(p) Natural Gas: 34 years;” <<

        "all the natural gas in the world will be gone in exactly 34 years..wow..got a source for this doom theory?"

        I am not emotional about the issue, its not a 'doom' theory to me, more like a reality theory. If you are riding in a bus heading for a cliff, and someone says stop the bus, before we go off the cliff… thats reality, not doom!

        Chris Clugston is the source. Nice guy. He loves civilization, was successful in business world. Heard about resources peaking. Didn't believe it. Decided to retire to research the issue and prove the 'doomers' wrong, and found out they were right. Published his research, scares the shit out of most people, except the military. He would love it if you could prove him wrong, cause he'd love civilization to continue, but based upon his research, he believes civilization is fucked.

        His book: Scarcity: Humanity’s Last Chapter: A Comprehensive Analysis of Non-renewable Natural Resource (NNR) Scarcity’s Consequences
        http://www.nnrscarcity.com

        Clugston's NNR Scarcity Analysis is based upon his analysis of the criticality and scarcity associated with each of the 89 analyzed NNRs, using data from USGS, EIA, BEA, BLS, Fed, CBO, FBI, IEA, UN, World Bank, etc; and concludes in general that “absent some combination of immediate and drastic reductions in our global NNR utilization levels, … we will experience escalating international and intranational conflicts during the coming decades over increasingly scarce NNR‘s, which will devolve into global societal collapse, almost certainly by the year 2050.”

      • “You do not believe in the concept of a carbon footprint, or you don’t know what it means,”

        i know what it means..i explained that..its you and western governments and bankers who are perpetuating a fraud by by not calling it what it is..its a carbon dioxide footprint..its not carbon at all..

        “Conclusion: ‘hitting a nerve’ is your projection; your nerves are easily assaulted by words on a screen, hence you project your experience onto others.”

        conclusion..your long ass replies hide your mistrust of your own belief system when challenged..your actually projecting onto me..

        “Its possible I drank some sort of coolaid, its a good critical thinking hypothesis to always use in evaluation of all information.”

        oh you have drunk it..thats not in question..the absence of a critical hypothesis is the argument..

        “I was not trying to question you.”

        a sentence with a question mark at the end of it is a question..are you in denial of your own words?

        “Actually.. I think the Mosuo culture and people are smart,”

        because a word doesnt exist it cant happen? example being “rape”..wow..you found heaven..deluded much?..a culture who never does anything wrong..please..

        “I am not part of any movement. So what are movement you talking about?”

        here: http://tygae.weebly.com/milint-earth-day.html once again denial of the obvious plays a strong role in your persona..

        “I am not emotional about the issue, its not a ‘doom’ theory to me, more like a reality theory.”

        you are totally emotional over the issue..thats why your life is dedicated to your “milint earth daylifestyle”..denial of the obvious again..its a religion and you are no different to other religions in the world..guilt and “sin” plays a major role in your beliefs..just like religion..

        “Chris Clugston is the source. Nice guy.”

        hes a nice guy because he preaches what you want to hear..please provide the basis for his 34 years of total natural gas supplies left in the world..i need a good chuckle..i will research chris some more on another day but im to busy today..

        “using data from USGS, EIA, BEA, BLS, Fed, CBO, FBI, IEA, UN, World Bank, etc;”

        quoting data from some of the most obscene untrustworthy murderous regimes the world has ever seen..you are in the land of the zombies..the alphabet groups are your friend..the bankers and one percent are who you work for and you dont even realise it..the fucking FBI and UN..spare me..

        “we will experience escalating international and intranational conflicts during the coming decades over increasingly scarce NNR‘s, which will devolve into global societal collapse, almost certainly by the year 2050.”

        apocalyptic rhetoric..as always..scare scare..just like a priest in a church..and you were in denial of preaching doom theory..well there you go again..the cause of any breakdown if it ever occurs will be from the elite bankers and military establishments..not fucking co2..not fucking wind farms over solar etc etc..get a grip..

        i rest my case..again :)

      • xxx

        I agree its quite possible or maybe probable we have different worldviews, although I can’t say I know enough about your worldview to clarify what are the similarities and differences.

        All cultures and religions are a form of psy-op movement, so in that sense I would agree, radical honesty is simply a different cultural/reliogious psy-op movement.

        Personally my view is similar: I support any individual to be a member of whatever psyop cultural or religious movement they wish to be part of, as long as they are fully informed consenting members of that particular psyop cultural/religious movement. Radical Honesty values fully informed consent more than bullshitting the public relations to gain more members. I like that. I don’t respect psyop movements who dilute their message with vagueness and ambiguity, for a large cult following who are clueless of the true cultural psyop precepts.

        Furthermore, as long as the culture/tribe abides by some form of breeding and consuming below carrying capacity levels. In that sense, if a tribe of people got together and decided to be cannibals, and were all agreed on the cannibalistic method of maintaining their population below carrying capacity, I’d have no problem with it.

        Radical Honesty, however is not my ‘worldview’, its more of a skill and tactic that enables me to come to a more clear worldview; but radical honesty as such as no specific worldview ‘this is what you have to believe’. It mainly teaches skills, skills that in my case enable me not to get upset about words on a screen, not even to get very upset when punched in the face, skills to be able to overcome my reactive fragile ego mind, and rather observe reality, and make decisions based upon that sensatory reality, as opposed to fragile ego paranoia. My assassin buddy described it as a form of what the army would teach you to pay attention to your senses, if you are in the jungle. You need to shut out the noise of your ego/fears, and pay attention to your senses.

        I don’t have any beliefs. I only have working hypothesis conclusions. A belief, generally is to believe any concept with 100% certainty. None of the ideas or concepts which guide me, including my worldview is a belief. All are working hypothesis conclusions, which can range from weak (little evidence to back it up) to strong (more evidence to back it up). But any one of them, I’d happily amend, if given any information and evidence of errors in my hypothesis.

        Totally agree humans have great capacity to delude themselves, which is one of the reasons I refuse to allow myself the luxury of any belief.

        A Dollar is a form of money.

        Chris Martenson defines money as a claim on human labour.

        Current conclusion: A Dollar is a form of money, known as fiat currency. It is created out of thin air, and is based upon an economic ponzi scheme of debt-based-economic growth. Debt based economic growth relies on the concept of exponentially increasing amounts of energy. If, or when such energy is no longer exponentially increasingly available to provide for debtors to repay their loans, the entire system collapses.

        Totally agree smart people can be indoctrinated. In fact I’d say that the more beliefs you have, that you are unwilling to put to the test, because you believe them as ‘certainty’ the more easily you are able to be indoctrinated.

        * Global Warming Hoax: Its possible global warming/climate change is a hoax, but I aint seen any conclusive evidence for it, from credible sources. I would agree that the liberals and neoliberal compulsive developmentists, would like to use climate change for their political agenda, and do not want to confront that their ‘renewables/carbon trading’ agenda is nowhere near sufficient to stabilize carbon emmisions, let alone reduce them.

        * 9/11: Agreed, between the two conspiracy theories; the one with the most conspiracy evidence, points to an inside job.

        * zionism: Most of the anti-zionists I have spoken to are very emotional and unable to simly discuss issues; nor to define what they mean by ‘zionism’. How do you define zionism?

        * Psychology: Western psychology may have many jews influenced it, for good or bad. don’t know. Much of western psychology is really really fucked. Whether that is the fault of jews or not, I don’t know.

        * Peak Meme: Its possible much of it is disinformation; although I have seen no evidence for such claims; and seen far more evidence to the contrary. I imagine you are referring to abiotic oil. Even if abiotic oil is true, that abiotic oil is not flowing into major oil reservoirs and filling them up. Mike Ruppert/Dale Allen Pfeiffer provided a very very strong evidentiary arguments for the flaws in abiotic oil (From the Wilderness: “No Free Lunch” series”), which abiotic theorists have not yet responded to (as far as I am aware)

        * Peak NNR: Nobody has yet refuted any of Chris Clugston’s arguments of Peak NNR’s….

        * Mismanagement: of course there is mismanagement, but any management that allows for any renewable resources to be overexploited is mismanagement. that is exactly my point. Good management means you reduce your resource use to below carrying capacity to allow earth to regenerate such resources. (I=PAT) To reduce the impact (I) on hte earth, i.e. scarcity causing conflict; you must reduce Population (P), number of consumers, and (A) Affluence, their levels of consumption, and Technology (T) technology that enables higher consumption/ecological destruction.

        * Brad studied with fritz, but fritz is hardly Brad’s ‘ideological father’.

        * Most rich eugenists do not support my aequilibriaex jurisprudence or commonsism view of resource management, because it requires them to reduce their consumption to below carrying capacity; as well as requiring people to breed below carrying capacity. Overconsumption is the other side of the Overpopulation coin. You cannot address the impact of overexploitation, without addressing both issues. If you read the MILINT Earth Day info, you’d know that.

        * Agreed the elite framework is very dominant… which is why i created my own theory: commonsism and jurisprudence: aequilibraiex.

        * Agreed that accurate critique of political power, requires among others, understanding the nature and origins of current political power: May I suggest you peruse the work of John Zerzan, Gerda Lerner and Robert S. McElvaine (Eve’s Seed: Biology, the Sexes and the Course of History) for a few fascinating insights into gender arrangements as a preview into current political power in our industrial political system.

        “Civilization, very fundamentally, is the history of the domination of nature and of women. Patriarchy means rule over women and nature.” – John Zerzan, Patriarchy, Civilization, And The Origins Of Gender

        “Karl Marx had it wrong. Class has, to be sure, been a major factor in history; but class itself is a derivative concept that is based on the ultimate causative power in history: sex. Marx‘s famous formulation must be revised: The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of struggles based on the division of our species into two sexes, jealousies emanating from this division, exaggerations of the differences between the sexes, misunderstandings about sexual reproductive power, and metaphors derived from sex. Together, these closely related matters constitute the most important, but largely neglected, set of motive forces in human history. Control — or the claim of control — over the means of reproduction has been even more fundamental to history than has control of the means of production.” – Robert McElvaine, Eve’s Seed…

      • ” zionism: Most of the anti-zionists I have spoken to are very emotional and unable to simly discuss issues; nor to define what they mean by ‘zionism’. How do you define zionism? ”

        Uh huh..it’s getting clearer..

      • first of all, i said “pop-psy” not “psyop.” it’s interestingly odd that you managed to transmute one into the other in your mind. these are two very different concept.

        when i say that i “believe” something, i mean that i think it is most likely to be true. e.g. i “belive” 9/11 was an inside job because that’s what a preponerance of the evidence delivers. there are very, very few things about which one can be absolutely certain.

        your definition of the dollar is incomplete, and therefore incorrect. yes, the dollar is based on debt – but the indebtedness of whom? each and every official dollar in existence is a debt incurred by the american taxpayer, who is ultimately responsible for the repayment and the interest payments.

        “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill…All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.” – club of rome report. note that they also considered “alien invasion” … demonstrating that they are perfectly willing to use nonexistent phenomena against people.

        worth repeating: “the real enemy then, is humanity itself.” any coincidence that people like ted turner and maurice strong, who have called for massive reductions in human population, have adopted this rhetoric?

        9/11: those who understand the reality of 9/11 could not possibly have any trust in ‘military intelligence.’ in the US, milint responsibility would fall to the DIA. that’s the exact same organization that was completely transformed by donald rumsfeld into a den of neocons – and neocons are trotskyite communists. if a person understands the nature of 9/11, they could not possibly continue to vote or call upon organs of government to “do the right thing.” afterall, they have yet to “do the right thing” about 9/11.

        zionism: wikipedia as a source for anything politically controversial, especially with regards to israel, is not credible. israel operates a paid “JIDF” to edit wikipedia, post comments on blogs, and generally to support israel in cyberspace.

        the specific, functional, modern definition of zionism is a belief that “israel has a right to exist” – a right not conferred simply by naked violence.

        the broad, ideological, historical definition of zionism is a belief that “jews” are a race, and that that race is superior to other races.

        (one could also say that the term applies to anyone seeking their “promised” land, but this is not the functional, modern definition.)

        analogy: suppose i got together with a bunch of my friends. we got a bunch of guns, come to your house, kill whoever opposes us, rape whomever we please, and kick you out into the streets. you protest and use every means at your disposal to get your house back. we both go to seeker for his opinion. he says “i’m neutral.” then me and my friends go back to what used to be your house and we have a party, while you compete with rats for food.

        there are cases where “neutrality” is most definitely the same as taking sides.

        i do not consider mike ruppert to be a credible source. there are two incidents which make me doubt his sincerity. first, we were on the verge of exposing cia involvement in cocaine trafficking in the US. the director of the cia even came to LA to deny the allegations before a crowd of people. ruppert, a former member of the lapd, stood up and claimed to have documetary evidence that he was recruited by the cia while in the lapd, as well as evidence that the cia was involved in drug trafficking in LA. the crowd went wild…

        …but it was also basically the end of the meeting. and ruppert never produced a shred of evidence. months later, the primary journalist whistleblower, danny casolero, committed “suicide” – by ‘shooting himself’ TWICE in th head.

        later, when 9/11 happened, ruppert captivated many of us with the story of vreeland and his foreknowledge of 9/11. it was a dead end that wasted a lot of good people’s energy.

        the term is indeed “abiogenic.” unless there is life-as-we-know-if on moons of jupiter and saturn where hydrocarbons have been discovered, the abiogenic hypothesis has weight. “scarcity” on the other hand, is simply a profit motivation for oil companies.

        (as a trader, my call is for crude prices to collapse – hardly an indication of scarcity. i put my money where my mouth is.)

        mismanagement of resources: it is the same people who are mismanaging/hoarding the resources that are promoting the ‘peak’ meme, promoting the ‘global warming’ hoax, and constantly using the word “sustainability.”

        zerzan: i have met him in person. he comes from the milieu of san francisco leftists and was himself an authoritarian control freak leftist commissar in the city. far from being a source of love for humanity, i have always had the feeling that he is motivated by an extreme hatred of humanity… which would explain his transformation from humanity-hating leftist bureaucrat into a humanity-hating primitivist. not credible. even when you read his primitivist essays, he repeats headscratcher after headscratcher of leftists values (gender equity, class equity, etc) being held high by primitive societies. he’s not only not credible, but quite delusional as well.

        side-note: i have know REAL primitivists. after college they left for the yukon with a few knives and not much else. have never been heard from again. this option is available for all who call themselves primitivists.

        lerner: zionist jew. not credible.

        mcelvaine: open supporter of the US democratic party, which is guilty of genocide, crimes against humanity, and crimes against the peace. no person with involvement in the democratic or republican parties in the US is credible. it’s no wonder that he, like freud before him, sees sex as the central motivating force of history.

        karl marx did not invent class. hell, the indians codified it thousands of years ago.

        compeletly avoided in your response was any mention of the exploitation/reinvention of indigenous cultures by the elite. do you not see what i am talking about?

        when white people from the UK and holland settled in south africa, aside from adjusting to new foods and land requirements, did white south africans go around pretending to be zulus? did they claim the heritage of the zulus as their own? did they hold zulus up as a model of the “noble savage” and have university professors and scholars tell you that everyone should adopt the zulu way life?

        while there may have been some crazies in your society doing those things, in general that’s not what happened in south africa. however, that is what is happening in israel, and it is what is happening with banker/elites in colorado, esalen, and the rest of the world. you invocation that a group of 40,000 people, isolated politcally and geographically from the rest of us and somehow leading lives that we should strive for… sounds much, much too familiar.

        why not be smarter-than-smart and ask the very fundamental question: qui bono?

  5. Seeker:

    LOL…. Do you understand the following principles of the english language, which I imagine, are relevant to all other languages; since its a primary concept of the rule of law.

    Do you know the difference between an ‘abstract’ and ‘concrete’ terms?

    Put simply, you appear not to know that abstract terms have multiple meanings, multiple definitions, frequently between individuals within the same culture, and almost definitely between people from different cultures, genders, religions.

    You appear to believe that there is one and one only definition for numerous abstract terms, and your definition is the one and only one.

    =====================
    Abstract and Concrete Terms:

    “Concrete terms refer to objects or events that are available to the senses. [This is directly opposite to abstract terms, which name things that are not available to the senses.] Examples of concrete terms include spoon, table, velvet eye patch, nose ring, sinus mask, green, hot, walking. Because these terms refer to objects or events we can see or hear or feel or taste or smell, their meanings are pretty stable. If you ask me what I mean by the word spoon, I can pick up a spoon and show it to you. [I can't pick up a freedom and show it to you, or point to a small democracy crawling along a window sill. I can measure sand and oxygen by weight and volume, but I can't collect a pound of responsibility or a liter of moral outrage.]”

    Abstract terms refer to ideas or concepts; they have no physical referents.

    [Stop right here and reread that definition. Many readers will find it both vague and boring. Even if you find it interesting, it may be hard to pin down the meaning. To make the meaning of this abstract language clearer, we need some examples.]

    Examples of abstract terms include love, success, freedom, good, moral, democracy, and any -ism (chauvinism, Communism, feminism, racism, sexism). These terms are fairly common and familiar, and because we recognize them we may imagine that we understand them—but we really can’t, because the meanings won’t stay still.

    Take love as an example. You’ve heard and used that word since you were three or four years old. Does it mean to you now what it meant to you when you were five? when you were ten? when you were fourteen (!)? I’m sure you’ll share my certainty that the word changes meaning when we marry, when we divorce, when we have children, when we look back at lost parents or spouses or children. The word stays the same, but the meaning keeps changing.

    http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/composition/abstract.htm

    =================

    Why are you incapable of recognizing that there are multiple meanings for abstract terms?

    If you were in a court of law… the following would apply, which added to your addictive desire to ‘rest your case’, without asking questions and entering into a sincere honourable dialogue indicates of possible relevance to your fragile ecological and intellectual ego…..

    =================

    “I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’ ”
    “But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
    — Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass (1872),

    Passage has been referenced in Britain by Lord Atkin in his dissenting judgement in the seminal case Liversidge v. Anderson (1942), and in the United States it appears in 250 judicial decisions in the Westlaw database as of April 19, 2008, including two Supreme Court cases (TVA v. Hill and Zschernig v. Miller).

    =================

    It would appear that in any discussion ‘seeker’ you are not interested in searching for information, honourable discussion, sharing of ideas, but in ‘being the master’????

    Which would indicate the possibility that it is your fragile ego, that is the master of your subservient servile intellect and emotions?

    • I have made my mind up on issues as you have. I wouldn’t expect an unknown poster on a blog to change your mind so don’t expect it in reverse. You can’t argue against what I have brought up because in essence it is correct and you know it but won’t face it. You support the scientific hoax of global warming, you support bankers taxing humans in conjunction with conservative governments, you support the war machine of the UN and the murderers at the FBI. You probably also support Zionists. Your religion is no different than the local Church down the road based on guilt and sin. Calling something carbon when it is carbon dioxide has nothing to do with love or how grammar is utilised and your analogy is poor and frankly pretty bizarre. Have a nice day.

    • I can assure my ego is under no pressure. Remember its you coming into MY house [blog] trying to impress me and my readers. Who are you trying to show off to? I think it’s you with the fragile persona and ego as you once again project your own fears onto me, an unknown stranger in your world.

  6. :::: ”zionism: Most of the anti-zionists I have spoken to are very emotional and unable to simly discuss issues; nor to define what they mean by ‘zionism’. How do you define zionism? ” ::::

    “Uh huh..it’s getting clearer..”

    For someone who does not have a definition of ‘zionism’; or whose definition of zionism is probably something to the effect of ‘anyone who disagrees with me, whom I wish to feel morally superior to’…..

    I have no doubt it must be getting very clearer for you! LOL…

    “Zionism is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel. Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora.” (Wikipedia)

    Personally I am not Jewish… so not an active supporter of zionism.. On Israel and Zionism (as defined above) I am neutral. I support all people’s and all religions, jews, christians, muslims, buddhists, satanists, atheists, pagans, primitivists, etc to be allowed to practice the above ‘nationalist’ related principles related to their particular group identity.

    Any principle that I support, I support as equally applicable to any and all peoples, races, religions, cultures, ideologies. I don’t think you can say one group of people are allowed certain rights to maintaining the homogenity of their tribe, and others are not.

    • As I thought, you are a supporter..oh and lolling in capitals at your own sentences is a sure sign of fragility of argument..I know very well what Zionism is and being Jewish has nothing to do with it..you act like you are the only person who has ever read a book.

  7. Seeker:

    “””i know what it means..i explained that..its you and western governments and bankers who are perpetuating a fraud by by not calling it what it is..its a carbon dioxide footprint..its not carbon at all..””””

    If you know what the concept of a carbon footprint means, why did you respond by saying:

    “Oh, and its carbon dioxide the gas not carbon which is a fucking element only. You don’t even know what your supposed to be limiting.”

    Carbon footprint is simply the short name for it, the full definition, as I stated is:

    Carbon Footprint:
    “A measure of the total amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) emissions of a defined population, system or activity, considering all relevant sources, sinks and storage within the spatial and temporal boundary of the population, system or activity of interest. Calculated as carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2e) using the relevant 100-year global warming potential (GWP100).” – Wright, Kemp, and Williams, writing in the journal Carbon Management
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint
    http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx

    ———

    “”””conclusion..your long ass replies hide your mistrust of your own belief system when challenged..your actually projecting onto me..””””

    Its possible, but in the absence of you providing evidence for this hypothesis, its got no teeth. I do not consciously hold any belief system, what do you think my belief system is?

    I enjoy my hypothesis being challenged; I love it when they are challenged with facts, and evidence and information and sincere honourable dialogue. I love finding new information that proves any of my hypothesis conclusions incorrect; because that implies I am closer to seeing reality.

    ——–

    ::: Its possible I drank some sort of coolaid, its a good critical thinking hypothesis to always use in evaluation of all information.:::

    “””oh you have drunk it..thats not in question..the absence of a critical hypothesis is the argument..”””

    Well if you have such a low standard for evidence, thats okay. I don’t mind what your low standard of evidence conclusions are about me. If you do ever find evidence of a higher standard for your conclusions, I’d be happy to hear them. Until then, you are more than welcome to your beliefs about me.

    ———

    :::I was not trying to question you.:::

    “””a sentence with a question mark at the end of it is a question..are you in denial of your own words?”””

    There is a big difference in context. It does not sound from your responses as if you are a person who is enjoying and interested in an honourable discussion. It sounds as if you are a frightened animal, petrified your beliefs are going to be shattered if you answer any question I pose.

    In that context, I attempted to explain that my questions are not those of a thought policeman demanding you change your frightened petrified fundamentalist beliefs, but were simply questions from a neutral person interested in an honourable conversation. You could answer them if you wished to engage in honourable dialogue, or not.

    ———

    :::Actually.. I think the Mosuo culture and people are smart,:::

    “””because a word doesnt exist it cant happen? example being

    “rape”..wow..you found heaven..deluded much?..a culture who never does anything wrong..please..”””

    No.. not a culture who never does anything wrong; a culture who is more interested in problem solving, than in ego addiction. A culture that examines the root causes of particular behaviours they did not like, and then worked to amend their culture into eliminating those root causes of those behaviours.

    A culture that is not founded on patriarchal fragile ego’s.. who demand large fan clubs, lots of enslaved children, and living above carrying capacity to satisfy their fragile ego insecurities; but on gender balanced problem solving… is a very different type of culture.

    its quite understandable that a culture made up of people who are similar to you, who are only interested in ego maximization.. and not interested in problem solving, could never overcome your spiritual ego addictions towards creating such a culture.

    So yes, with a thousand ‘seekers’ such as you, such a culture is not possible. Thank goodness though, not all men are fragile ego addicted, and many are interested in root cause problem solving, and with such men, its quite possible, to cooperate to create a culture that is beneficial to both me and women to engage in other activities

    ————-

    :::I am not part of any movement. So what are movement you talking about?” :::

    “””here: http://tygae.weebly.com/milint-earth-day.html once again denial of the obvious plays a strong role in your persona..”””

    What is your definition of ‘movement’? It may fit your definition of ‘movement’, but it does not fit my definition of movement.

    Asking questions and making sure your interpretations of someone’s statements does not appear to play a strong role in your persona!!

    ————–

    ::: am not emotional about the issue, its not a ‘doom’ theory to me, more like a reality theory.:::

    “””you are totally emotional over the issue..thats why your life is dedicated to your “milint earth daylifestyle”..denial of the obvious again..its a religion and you are no different to other religions in the world..guilt and “sin” plays a major role in your beliefs..just like religion..

    LOL……… hey, if htat makes you happy, by all means!!

    Says the person who has been swearing all over, telling me to fuck off, who is desperate to be ‘right’, resting his case without ever asking a question!!

    —————-

    :::Chris Clugston is the source. Nice guy.:::

    “””hes a nice guy because he preaches what you want to hear..please provide the basis for his 34 years of total natural gas supplies left in the world..i need a good chuckle..i will research chris some more on another day but im to busy today..”””

    No.. my definition of a ‘nice guy’ has nothing to do with his ideological intellectual or worldview opinions. There are people who entirely agree with me on issues of ecology, race, religion, etc whom I consider absolute assholes, and people who totally disagree with me, whom I consider nice guys. A nice guy is someone who is (a) honest, (b) honourable: practices what he preaches, keeps his word); and (c) who treats all people equally; (d) capable of and interested in listening.

    ————-

    :::using data from USGS, EIA, BEA, BLS, Fed, CBO, FBI, IEA, UN, World Bank, etc;:::

    “””quoting data from some of the most obscene untrustworthy murderous regimes the world has ever seen..you are in the land of the zombies..the alphabet groups are your friend..the bankers and one percent are who you work for and you dont even realise it..the fucking FBI and UN..spare me..”””

    So are you saying their resource utilization data is incorrect, because you hate them? Are those not seperate issues?

    Do you dismiss all evidence from anyone you hate? Are you not capable of examining the evidence from an individual or entity which you hate, to determine its accuracy or not?

    —————

    ::: “we will experience escalating international and intranational conflicts during the coming decades over increasingly scarce NNR‘s, which will devolve into global societal collapse, almost certainly by the year 2050.”:::

    “””apocalyptic rhetoric..as always..scare scare..just like a priest in a church..and you were in denial of preaching doom theory..well there you go again..the cause of any breakdown if it ever occurs will be from the elite bankers and military establishments..not fucking co2..not fucking wind farms over solar etc etc..get a grip..”””

    Are you incapable of knowing the difference between a religious argument based upon non-scientific faith and belief; from a factual argument based upon scientific evidence?

    No difference between:

    (A) The Titanic is going to sink because the Captain does not believe in Mohammed.

    (B) The Titanic is going to sink because it hit an iceberg, that has crashed its hull, and it is taking in more water than it could possibly expel.

    Priests are in search of fans and followers. Chris Clugston is not.

    It would appear as if you do not endorse citizens to take personal responsibility for their own behaviour and lifestyle’s, but to blame all their problems on jews, elite bankers or military establishments. Why do you consider people who breed and consume according to the pro-growth industrialization dictates of elite bankers, to be innocent?

    My perspective on guilt / innocence of ecological collapse is:

    Eco-Innocent Sustainable Leaver v Scarcity Combatant Unsustainable Taker

    An individuals Sustainable (Leaver) or Unsustainable (Taker) Footprint is a result of: (A) Consumption Footprint multiplied by (B) Procreation Factor (Every child increases 20 Child Factor)

    Sustainable Leaver / Eco-Innocent:
    * 0 children, consumption < 20 gha (Intn'l Biocapacity (1 gha) x 20)
    * 1 child, consumption 20 gha (Intn’l biocapacity (1 gha) x 20)
    * 1 child, consumption > 1 gha (Intn’l biocapacity (1 gha (2007))

    http://tygae.weebly.com/commonsism.html

    • “:::I was not trying to question you.:::

      “””a sentence with a question mark at the end of it is a question..are you in denial of your own words?”””

      There is a big difference in context. It does not sound from your responses as if you are a person who is enjoying and interested in an honourable discussion. It sounds as if you are a frightened animal, petrified your beliefs are going to be shattered if you answer any question I pose.

      In that context, I attempted to explain that my questions are not those of a thought policeman demanding you change your frightened petrified fundamentalist beliefs, but were simply questions from a neutral person interested in an honourable conversation. You could answer them if you wished to engage in honourable dialogue, or not.”

      << i am questioned everyday by someone who wants to argue the "facts"..the fact i choose not to is more an indication of the time i have available and the monotony of it all rather than your "sinister" premise that i dont want an honorable discussion :) you are just one of many i have had on here in the last 4 years..and its you who is the rigid religious fundamentalist..

      "Are you incapable of knowing the difference between a religious argument based upon non-scientific faith and belief; from a factual argument based upon scientific evidence?"

      << science is your religion..,you believe in the "consensus" science scams..you have been fooled..consensus isnt science..science isnt consensus..

      cya

  8. Correction (did not post correctly) apologies:

    Sustainable Leaver / Eco-Innocent:
    * 0 children, consumption less than 20 gha (Intn’l Biocapacity (1 gha) x 20)
    * 1 child, consumption less than 1 gha (Intn’l biocapacity (1 gha (2007))

    Unsustainable Taker / Scarcity-Combatant:
    * 0 children, consumption greater than 20 gha (Intn’l biocapacity (1 gha) x 20)
    * 1 child, consumption greater than 1 gha (Intn’l biocapacity (1 gha (2007))

  9. Don’t think this is a very good platform to try and recruit Tygae.

    “I do not have any beliefs”…… – Tygae

    Proceeds to rattle off tons of opinion/beliefs.

    • Agreed.. if I was interested in recruiting (in my worldview recruiting is a fucked up concept practiced by people who suffer from fragile ego’s)… then this would not be a good place. Joining a discussion on a post posted over 2 years ago, would also not be advised.

      I landed on this website in a google search on industrial civilization.

      I doubt there is anyone who visits this website who would qualify for any one of the major tenets required by TYGAE to join: (a) procreate below carrying capacity; (b) consume/produce below carrying capacity; (c) 100% commitment to honourable communication.

      In my worldview you cannot solve any individuals or group or nation or race or religion’s problems, when the person or members of that group are not seriously committed to (a) confronting the root causes of their problems; and (b) making the required lifestyle changes to eliminate the causes of those problems.

      Since a majority of industrial civilization’s socio-political problems are a result of scarcity…. you cannot solve those problems without addressing the causes of scarcity.

      Unlike thousands of people who pretend to want to solve problems, by engaging in blame game behaviour and avoiding the root causes of the problems they whine about, so as to get themselves a fanclub; that does not interest me.

      So, that leaves me free to simply discuss…. and engage others to determine whether they have any evidence to enable me to update my working hypothesis conclusions about reality…

      Ain’t found any such evidence here yet… lack of honourable communicators.. but that’s quite common…

      Anyway.. not to worry…. its been interesting.. as life in general is…, take care…

      • Tygae.

        1. No children, 34 years of age.
        2. 5’7” 140 lbs
        3. Dunnop WTF you talkin bout ( I could have said this more eloquently)

        “Ain’t found any such evidence here yet… lack of honourable communicators.. but that’s quite common… ” – Tygae

        You sir are a douche from where I come from

      • its only honorable in her belief system..so she plays judge and jury on what is honorable..

      • Saying you are so much brighter than others in your pseudo condescending ways will never make you someone folks want to follow.

      • Apologies if my grammar is not up to par, too many ales this PM

      • “(a) procreate below carrying capacity;”

        orwellian double speak for eugenics..

        cya tyga..

    • i note that ..um..hypocrisy?

  10. carbon footprint: a term used by people who think “global warming” is not a hoax. they fail to realize that CO2 levels follow, not lead, historical warming.

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