The Apocryphon of John


The Apocryphon of John is commonly referenced by two other names: The Secret Book of John and The Secret Revelation of John,  depending upon how the word “Apocryphon” is translated. There are four surviving Coptic manuscripts of  this text: two shorter versions  found in the Berlin Codex and Nag Hammadi Codex III; and two longer version, found in Nag Hammadi Codex II and Codex IV. This translation prepared by Dr. Wisse  for the Gnostic Coptic Library Project uses all four manuscripts to produce a single text.

Separate translations of the short and long version, along with extensive additional resources, are available in the Apocryphon of John Collection of the Gnostic Society Library.

Continue here:


havent read it myself..thoughts?

posted for posterity 🙂


~ by seeker401 on January 10, 2016.

137 Responses to “The Apocryphon of John”

  1. Apocryphon of John

    The opening words of the Secret Book of John are “The teaching of the saviour, and the revelation of the mysteries and the things hidden in silence, even these things which he taught John, his disciple.” The author John is immediately specified as “John, the brother of James — who are the sons of Zebedee.” There are four separate surviving manuscripts of “The Secret Book of John”. Three of these were found in the Nag Hammadi codices in 1945, while the fourth was found independently 50 years earlier from another site in Egypt. All four versions date to the 4th century. Three of these appear to be independently produced Coptic translations of an original Greek text. Two of the four are similar enough that they probably represent copies of a single source.

    Many Christians in the 2nd century CE hoped to receive a transcendent personal revelation such as Paul was able to report to the church at Corinth (2 Corinthians 12:1-4) or that John experienced on the isle of Patmos, which inspired his Revelation[2]. As Acts narrates what happened after the time Jesus ascended to heaven, so the Apocryphon of John begins at the same point but relates how Christ reappeared to John.

    The remainder of the book is a vision of spiritual realms and of the prior history of spiritual humanity.

    To a reader unfamiliar with the Gnostic myth of creation, the countless number of aeons and emanations of a God, more perfect and all encompassing than God, the creator, seem frightfully out of place. In fact the only familiar figure in the whole of the Gnostic creation story as presented in the Apocryphon of John may be Adam, the first human being. In the biblical version of Genesis, Adam is created first, and Eve, his companion and in many ways, as presented in the canon, his ward, is created from him as the second. From biblical interpretations, many conclude or believe that Adam and Eve were in fact historical people who did live, and serve as a model for the rest of humanity. According to Stephan Hoeller’s article, “The Genesis Factor,” Gnostic texts like the Apocryphon of John portray Adam and Eve as mythical, allegorical figures. In this context, Adam is the embodiment of the soul, the emotional and intellectual aspects of the human condition, while Eve is the embodiment of the spirit, the human capacity for spiritual consciousness. As a result, when one reads passages from the Apocryphon of John such as, “And he sent, through his beneficent Spirit and his great mercy, a helper to Adam, luminous Epinoia which comes out of him, who is called Life. And she assists the whole creature, by toiling with him and by restoring him to his fullness and by teaching him about the descent of his seed (and) by teaching him about the way of ascent, (which is) the way he came down. And the luminous Epinoia was hidden in Adam, in order that the archons might not know her, but that the Epinoia might be a correction of the deficiency of the mother,” it is easy to see how Adam and Epinoia (Eve) are allegorical figures in a larger narrative about gnosis. In addition, the Gnostic depictions of Adam and Eve also seem to refute the assumption that Adam, as a man, was superior to Eve. In fact, the opposite seems to be the case. It is Eve who is elevated above Adam as the being who first revealed his true nature to him and attempted to lift the veil of ignorance set upon humanity by God, the creator. ….

  2. Irenaeus: Against Heresies

    2. Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked deformity, lest, being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. But it is craftily decked out in an attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the inexperienced (ridiculous as the expression may seem) more true than the truth itself.

    • I haven’t read the book. I know it was at the basis of the teachings of the bogomils (s.X) later called cathars(s.XII) who were severely persecuted by the church, both orthodox & catholic. That heresy (heresy meaning “choice of principles to follow”) treated equally man & woman, didn’t have any slaves & tried to live guided by the love, following as close as possible the way of life of the first christian communities. No priests hierarchy nor institutions in there. No surprise the official church persecuted them with such a ferocity.

      A review on the book I found:
      “the story doesn’t resemble anything else Jesus said in the New Testament.”
      ” This book is more like a “cosmology according to the Christ”.
      “Jesus explains Sophia, the feminine wisdom who gave virgin birth to Yaldabaoth, the demiurge. It discusses the role of archons, even naming the Archons of Yaldabaoth. It is highly revelatory”
      “If you give it a chance, you can come away with meaningful and life changing knowledge. …it answers the eternal question of “why bad things happen to good people”
      That question has never been answered satisfactorily by more traditional priests and pastors, because they don’t teach that it was an imperfect demiurge that made an imperfect world. Once you accept that premise, everything else falls into place. ”

      “it explains the Godhead as male and female, the various layers of the universe, the various co-creators with God that hurt his creation, and the clear references to karma (called fate), and reincarnation, that were probably a part of the original teachings of Jesus.”

      • “This book is more like a “cosmology according to the Christ”.

      • The Apostle John wrote The Gospel of John and Revelation also 1 John, 2 John and 3 John .. Polycarp was a disciple of John, Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, Eusebius was a disciple of Irenaeus. Eusebius was in a direct line of discipleship from John and was the first to write the history of the ‘Early Church’, he also authenticated the books of the New Testament, if the Apocryphon of John were authentic, Eusebius would certainly have made it known.

        The Church History of Eusebius.

        The ‘Church’ or ‘Christianity’ as it is known today in no way resembles the original community of believers in the Messiah. The Edomite Jews have worked continuously to deceive and mislead or confuse those who would believe in the Messiah through Gnostic writings, translating the Greek Septuagint into the Hebrew Masoretic and finally producing the Scofield Study Bible rewriting the script to deceive the entire mass of those who claim to be Christians.

        Are Jews the Israelites of the Bible?

        • Hello Rev.
          So do you say that Apocryphon is a fraud? You mentioned that many authentic parts of the teaching of Jesus was left out in the Council of Nicea (325) and many non-authentic doctrines were adopted,.
          What is your criterion to distinguish the authentic ones?
          The esoteric (and not occult) teachings are kept away from the general public.
          And that book was followed by the bogomils and the cathars for 3 centuries (c. X-XIII) until they have been wiped out (killed till the last one) by the official church. That sole fact makes me suspicious.
          @bgjori: that could not be technically “new age” since it existed at least 10 centuries ago.

          • 1948 .. makes me suspicious.

            Gnostic Christianity and the Myth of Sophia

            In 1945, near the banks of the River Nile, a jar was unearthed which contained one of the richest manuscript finds of modern history — the Nag Hammadi codices. Like the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered two years later, this library of ancient documents (dated AD 350) contained texts relating to early Christianity that the world had never seen. The Dead Sea texts belonged to an earlier, Jewish branch of Christianity, and the works from Nag Hammadi to a later philosophical movement, called Gnosticism. Since their discovery scholars have long pondered their contents, questioning their relation to original Christianity.

            In these pages we will look into their times to see the forces that shaped their thought. We will see in their writings totally new Gospels, teaching dialogues between Jesus and his followers, collections of sayings, and cosmological myths of vast design. These deeply mystical works express in their own language and style the same ideas as are found in the works of Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey, our own modern carriers of the esoteric flame.

            In 1948 the world was informed of the discovery …

            Because of the tumultuous post World War II situation in Egypt, efforts to translate and publish the Nag Hammadi codices were continually thwarted. It was a tremendous frustration for biblical scholars because they knew that the codices would contain answers to important historical questions. Despite repeated efforts by Mina and Doresse, the Gnostic scriptures would have to wait 30 years to be properly translated. The American theologian James Robinson was instrumental in finally gathering a team to translate the texts. The Nag Hammadi Library, published in 1977, is a result of this effort.


            James Robinson .. meets Frankie


            • In these pages we will look into their times to see the forces that shaped their thought. We will see in their writings totally new Gospels, teaching dialogues between Jesus and his followers, collections of sayings, and cosmological myths of vast design. These deeply mystical works express in their own language and style the same ideas as are found in the works of Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey, our own modern carriers of the esoteric flame.

              • Connecting the dots…Gnostics…Bogomils…Blavatsky…Theosophy (Sophia)…New Age…Alice Bailey…Nazism…UN….Wow, who knew?

                heosophy, occult movement originating in the 19th century with roots that can be traced to ancient Gnosticism and Neoplatonism. The term theosophy, derived from the Greek theos (“god”) and sophia (“wisdom”), is generally understood to mean “divine wisdom.”

                Forms of this doctrine were held in antiquity by the Manichaeans, an Iranian dualist sect, and in the Middle Ages by two groups of dualist heretics, the Bogomils in Bulgaria and the Byzantine Empire and the Cathari in southern France and Italy. In modern times, theosophical views have been held by Rosicrucians and by speculative Freemasons.

                The international New Age movement of the 1970s and ’80s originated among independent theosophical groups in the United Kingdom. Despite its relatively small membership, the Theosophical Society has been very influential. The society not only pioneered the promotion of Eastern thought in the West but also inspired the creation of more than 100 esoteric religious movements, including the Alice Bailey movement (Arcane School), the I Am movement, the Church Universal and Triumphant, and the Liberal Catholic Church.


                A Manichaean sect called the Bogomils (later called the Cathars) arose in Bulgaria and spread across Europe. Homosexuality became so closely associated with these Bulgarian heretics that the practice became known as “buggery.” Indeed, “the word for Cathar in most European languages came to be the word for homosexual: in German, Ketzer, in Italian, Gazarro, and in French, Herite….

                Heresy and homosexuality became so interchangeable that those accused of heresy attempted to prove their innocence by claiming heterosexuality” (Evans:51ff). An examination of the homo-occultic influences on the Nazis must begin with the Russian-born mystic Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (1831-1891), founder of the Theosophical Society and a figure who looms large behind some of the defining actions and beliefs of the Nazi Party.

                Blavatsky was probably a lesbian, but we have no proof that she actually engaged in lesbian sexual activity. She is described as a very “masculine” woman who dominated her many followers, both male and female (Cavendish:250). She was married twice and maintained a long association with Theosophical Society co-founder Henry Olcott, but these were relationships of convenience. Blavatsky insisted she had never had sex with either husband (Meade:137) and wrote, “There is nothing of the woman in me. When I was young, if a young man had dared to speak to me of love, I would have shot him like a dog who bit me” (ibid.:50).

                A world famous occultist, Blavatsky founded the Theosophical Society in 1875 in New York, but soon moved her operation to India where she wrote an influential occult book called The Secret Doctrine in 1888. In The Secret Doctrine Blavatsky expounds the Theosophical theory of creation; a seven-step progression of human evolution in which successive “races” evolve from a lower to a higher form of life. She calls these stages “root races” and identifies our current “root race” as the fifth of seven — the Aryan race — which follows the fourth race, known as the Atlantean.

                Blavatsky used a variety of esoteric symbols in the book, including triangles and swastikas. She claimed to be the chosen spokesperson for two “exalted masters” who communicated telepathically with her from their secret dwelling place in Tibet (Goodrick-Clarke:18ff). In 1884 the first German Theosophical Society was established. Despite its ludicrous tenets, Theosophy became extremely popular in Germany and Austria.

                Its Aryan racist elitism appealed to the growing number of ethnic Germans whose voelkisch, or nationalist, sentiments demanded a reunited Germany. According to Blavatsky, the Aryans were the most spiritually advanced people on earth, but the Jews had a “religion of hate and malice toward everyone and everything outside itself.” This was a message tailor-made for Nazism. Since occultism is associated primarily with Gnosticism, the association of the Gnostics with homosexuality is of primary relevance to this study.

                Thus we found an obscure reference to Hitler as a Manichaean in Steven Katz’s The Holocaust in Historical Context, Volume 1, of interest. Arthur Evans’ Witchcraft and the Gay Counterculture provides some illumination here. Mani, for whom Manichaeism is named, was a third century Prince of Babylon who devised his own form of Gnosticism. nostics blended pagan sex rituals and Mother Goddess worship with elements of New Testament Christianity and “rejected Jehovah God as an evil demon.”


                • Always connectTHEY & just like Seek said Follow THEY$ & in all don’t forget THEY-fav-HOLLYWOOD subject -THEY-Cathars
                  btw article about THEY-HOLLYWOOD-dying
                  we always said only-originality-survives & worth follow 🙂

                • A Manichaean sect called the Bogomils (later called the Cathars) arose in Bulgaria and spread across Europe. Homosexuality became so closely associated with these Bulgarian heretics that the practice became known as “buggery.” Indeed, “the word for Cathar in most European languages came to be the word for homosexual: in German, Ketzer, in Italian, Gazarro, and in French, Herite….

                  Heresy and homosexuality became so interchangeable that those accused of heresy attempted to prove their innocence by claiming heterosexuality” (Evans:51ff). An examination of the homo-occultic influences on the Nazis must begin with the Russian-born mystic Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (1831-1891), founder of the Theosophical Society and a figure who looms large behind some of the defining actions and beliefs of the Nazi Party.

                  Blavatsky was probably a lesbian, but we have no proof that she actually engaged in lesbian sexual activity. She is described as a very “masculine” woman who dominated her many followers, both male and female (Cavendish:250). She was married twice and maintained a long association with Theosophical Society co-founder Henry Olcott, but these were relationships of convenience. Blavatsky insisted she had never had sex with either husband (Meade:137) and wrote, “There is nothing of the woman in me. When I was young, if a young man had dared to speak to me of love, I would have shot him like a dog who bit me” (ibid.:50).

                  connections to the rainbow crowd..

                  • “Basic Cathar Tenets led to some surprising logical implications. For example they largely regarded men and women as equals, and had no doctrinal objection to contraception, euthanasia or suicide. In some respects the Cathar and Catholic Churches were polar opposites. For example the Cathar Church taught that all non-procreative sex was better than any procreative sex. The Catholic Church taught – as it still teaches – exactly the opposite. Both positions produced interesting results. Following their tenet, Catholics concluded that masturbation was a far greater sin than rape (as mediaeval penitentials confirm). Following their principles, Cathars could deduce that sexual intercourse between man and wife was more culpable than homosexual sex. (Catholic propaganda on this supposed Cathar proclivity gave us the word bugger, from Bougre, one of the many names for medieval Gnostic Dualists)

                    In the Languedoc, known at the time for its high culture, tolerance and liberalism, the Cathar religion took root and gained more and more adherents during the twelfth century. By the early thirteenth century Catharism was probably the majority religion in the area. Many Catholic texts refer to the danger of it replacing Catholisism completely.”

                    “Arguably just as interesting, Protestant ideas share much in common with Cathar ideas, and there is some reason to believe that early reformers were aware of the Cathar tradition. Even today some Protestant Churches claim a Cathar heritage. Tantalisingly, weavers were commonly accused of spreading Protestant ideas in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, just as their antecedents in the same trade had been accused of spreading Cathar ideas in Medieval times.”


                    it always depends on what source one takes the info- from 🙂

                  • However, the New Age Movement uses rainbows to signify their building of the Rainbow Bridge (antahkarana) between man and Lucifer who, they say, is the over-soul. New Agers use the rainbow as a decoration, unaware of the growing popular acceptance of its occult meaning and hidden dangers.” Constance E. Cumbey `The Hidden Dangers Of The Rainbow` 1983.
                    Many believe that the New Age Movement is little more than a collection of old Hippies, Feminists and `wannabe` mystics, chanting and praying to who knows what or why. But that is so far from the reality of what is in truth, nothing less than a cloak for Lucifer Worship, in the form of a revived occult religion based on the `Babylonian Mysteries` and the heretical Jewish Kabbalah. For the first time in history, there exists a movement that fulfils all the scriptural requirements for the coming of the `Antichrist` and it is working together with it’s co conspirators in the Illuminati, through the use of a myriad of means and sub-plots to drive their New World Order project to it’s logical conclusion,whilst we the people sleep walk into their `Rainbow` Dictatorship.


          • Much previous to 1948 and E. Blavatsky, though…:

            Bertrand Russell on the cathars:

            “We have a large amount of information that is beyond any doubt. In all likelihood, the Cathars were dualists, and like the Gnostics believed the Old Testament Jehovah as an evil demiurge, while the true God is found only in the New Testament. They viewed the matter as inherently evil and believed that the virtues will not be a resurrection of the body. The impious however, – according to the cathars -, were doomed to reincarnate in the bodies of animals. On that basis, they adhered to vegetarianism as not touched even eggs, cheese and milk.
            Embracing the New Testament much more literally than orthodox Christians; abstaining from obscenity and placing the other cheek. In the chronicles of their pursuers was recorded case in which a man accused of heresy, defended himself by saying that he eated meat, lied, cursed, and generally was a good Catholic.
            The most stringent requirements of the sect should be followed only by very holy people, called “perfect”; the others were allowed to eat meat and even to marry. ”


          • “What is your criterion to distinguish the authentic ones?”

            If one accepts the Gospel of John and the Letter’s of John as authentic then the following would be critical in determining authenticity ..

            Gospel of John 1: 1-3, 14
            In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was already with God in the beginning. Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him. The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, ..

            1 John 1:1-3
            The Word of life existed from the beginning. We have heard it. We have seen it. We observed and touched it. This life was revealed to us. We have seen it, and we testify about it. We are reporting to you about this eternal life that was in the presence of the Father and was revealed to us. .. Our relationship is with the Father and with his Son Yashua Messiah. (Jesus Christ)

            1 John 2:22,24,26
            Who is a liar? Who else but the person who rejects Yahshua as the Messiah? The person who rejects the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Make sure that the message you heard from the beginning lives in you. If that message lives in you, you will also live in the Son and in the Father. I’m writing to you about those who are trying to deceive you.

            1 John 4:1-3
            Dear friends, don’t believe all people who say that they have the Spirit. Instead, test them. See whether the spirit they have is from God, because there are many false prophets in the world. This is how you can recognize God’s Spirit: Every person who declares that Yahshua Messiah (Jesus Christ) has come as a human has the Spirit that is from God. But every person who doesn’t declare that Yahshua Messiah (Jesus Christ) has come as a human has a spirit that isn’t from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that you have heard is coming.

            John 16:13
            But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;

          • Gnostic Scriptures and Important Texts
            The Apocryphon of John

            This important scripture was lost to public knowledge for many centuries and only discovered very recently. It is currently known by many names, given the variety of ways the original title can be understood. The Secret Book of John, The Apocryphon of John, or The Secret Revelation of John all have accuracy, but knowing the roots of the name leads to a clearer understanding.

            The title of this scripture in Greek is Apocryphon Ioannis. Apocryphon comes from απόκρυφος, apokryphos, “hidden, obscure,” from apo- “away” and kryptein “to hide.” This is important because at the time of its writing, the knowledge of Kabbalah was jealously protected by a powerful elite (their power was demonstrated in the torture and killing of Jesus, Paul, Stephen, and many, many others). Those who were outside of that elite (whether called Jews, Christians, Gnostics, or by many other names) but initiated and educated in the secret knowledge adopted a very effective system of “blinds” or “veils” to protect themselves and their science. Primarily, the scriptures were written in a complex symbolic language that can only be understood if you know the keys: Hebrew and Kabbalah. Yet, this was not the Kabbalah of the elite, but the experiential, intuitive Kabbalah that lives within the awakened consciousness of anyone from anywhere in the world who purifies themselves of רע Ra (pollution). Kabbalah is not a posession of the jews, but a divine wisdom that has been studied in the heart of every religion in the world.



  3. luceferian gnostic non sens. welcome to the new age teachings for everyone that looks for answers where answers will not be found.

    • Gnosticism and The Gnostic Jesus

      In our time there has been a renewed assault on the biblical Jesus – the Jesus found in the inspired word of God. Many of the conceptions about Jesus that are presently being promoted are coming from New Age circles and are rooted in an ancient movement known as Gnosticism. The New Age portrait of Jesus reveals a completely different Jesus than the one found in the New Testament writings of the inspired apostles. For example, the current view of Jesus is that he is not the Son of God, as his followers claimed, nor was he born of a virgin, nor resurrected from the dead following his crucifixion….

      Near the end of the first century, when the apostle John penned his collection of three letters known as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John, the heresy of Gnosticism was already troubling the church. In his letters, John argued: “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” (1 John 4:2-3) He also warned first century Christians against being deceived by these false teachings: “For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.” (2 John 7-11)…

  4. The Apocryphon of John – looked at objectively – reads like a classical contactee UFO experience. Word for word, moment for moment.

  5. The Nag Hammadi Codices were made by monks

  6. Recently, an ancient Egyptian Handbook was deciphered. I think it’s a clue to secret societies, and religions of old and new!
    We have some REALLY interesting connections here! Take a gander at how the Roman Catholic Church is involved. I’m always amazed at how this church has its tentacles in such matters.
    But what’s so interesting about this book? Oh, it’s a page-turner for some, let’s have a look!
    Among other things, the “Handbook of Ritual Power,” as researchers call the book, tells readers how to cast love spells, exorcise evil spirits and treat “black jaundice,” a bacterial infection that is still around today and can be fatal.
    [EDITOR: This should be your first clue! At first seemingly innocent, right? Helping the innocent be relieved of evil spirits…but that’s not all, folks! Spells? This is what? Witchcraft, plain and simple.]
    The book is about 1,300 years old, and is written in Coptic, an Egyptian language. It is made of bound pages of parchment — a type of book that researchers call a codex.
    [EDITOR: So, why would they be so interested in deciphering the content of this book? Science is of mankind, it’s origins are from man, for man and does not include GOD. Therefore we can decipher what the vested interest will be, right? For man, of course. What does man love to do? SIN!]
    “It is a complete 20-page parchment codex, containing the handbook of a ritual practitioner,” write Malcolm Choat and Iain Gardner, who are professors in Australia at Macquarie University and the University of Sydney, respectively, in their book, “A Coptic Handbook of Ritual Power” (Brepols, 2014)….

    The Sethians
    [EDITOR: Before going any further, you must understand who these people were.
    Sethians considered themselves to be the “seed of Seth,” the third son of Adam and Eve; the Seed of Seth was the section of humanity that had received Gnosis and would thus have a different fate than the offspring of Cain and Abel. They also referred to themselves as “the generation of Seth”, or “the immoveable race.”
    This may very well be the origins of the Gnostic texts which we have seen come forward over time. I firmly believe these to be the texts which the Knights of Templar/Rosicrucians and other ‘enlightened’ groups had a vested interest in.
    What’s this:
    VATICAN CITY (AP) The Vatican newspaper reported Tuesday that 29 previously unpublished homilies said to be the work of one of the most important and prolific early church fathers have been discovered in a German library.The 3rd Century theologian Origen of Alexandria is considered to have played a critical role in the development of Christian thought. Pope Benedict XVI, himself a theologian, dedicated two of his 2007 weekly church teaching sessions to the importance of Origen’s life and work.Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano said that despite Origen’s importance, few of his original texts remain in part because he was condemned by the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553.
    Much of the original Greek of Origens works has been lost through the centuries, and we have been dependent upon the Latin translations of Rufinus and Jerome. Finding Origens work in the original Greek is a rare and wonderful find. Additionally, these may provide one of the earliest (if not the earliest) examples of early Christian preaching on the psalms. This will help us not only better understand Origens theology and preaching, but will also help scholars who study the Greek translations of the Old Testament.
    Origen’s Greek name Ōrigénēs (Ὠριγένης) probably means “child of Horus”
    DID YOU GET THAT? Horus. Why would a church of “Jesus Christ” be interested in such matters? Because their scholars for centuries down the line have played a part in this ‘enlightenment’ process. I believe Popes all down the line were secretly worshiping Horus…and still do! But Horus goes by many names! Does he not?]

    Continuing on…
    Researchers believe that the codex may date to the 7th or 8th century. During this time, many Egyptians were Christian and the codex contains a number of invocations referencing Jesus.
    [EDITOR: The references to “Jesus” are not the same Jesus as Jesus Christ. This text also claims Jesus Christ was never crucified, but how is that possible? Because it’s NOT the same Jesus! These are referred to the Ascended Masters! I guarantee you they are. This is how all the confusion about Jesus Christ began to sway so many people away from Christianity. A mixture of witchcraft with Christianity has been around for thousands of years and still is. This is one of Satan’s biggest pieces of work. It may well have been the one which sent this world into a tailspin.]
    However, some of the invocations seem more associated with a group that is sometimes called “Sethians.” This group flourished in Egypt during the early centuries of Christianity and held Seth, the third son of Adam and Eve, in high regard. One invocation in the newly deciphered codex calls “Seth, Seth, the living Christ.” [The Holy Land: 7 Amazing Archaeological Finds]
    [EDITOR: They considered Seth, a god. You read that correctly. The origins of Sethism?
    Orphism. Of course this takes us to none other than the Greeks and their famous demi-gods. But who were they? They were the fallen angels’ descendants from Atlantis.]
    The opening of the codex refers to a divine figure named “Baktiotha” whose identity is a mystery, researchers say. The lines read, “I give thanks to you and I call upon you, the Baktiotha: The great one, who is very trustworthy; the one who is lord over the forty and the nine kinds of serpents,” according to the translation.
    “The Baktiotha is an ambivalent figure. He is a great power and a ruler of forces in the material realm,” Choat and Gardner said at a conference, before their book on the codex was published.
    [EDITOR: This is from the Zoroastrian religion. And I think this place, CITY OF MERV, is related to this subject. The Merovingian’s are a select group of bloodlines which are behind the elite, the most powerful people on earth and have been for thousands of years. They believe themselves to be direct descendants of Jesus Christ.
    It is located in the territory of Mary velayat of Turkmenistan. Archaeologists discovered a palace, a fortified mud-brick enclosure, temples with fire altars most probably dedicated to the Zoroastrian religion and residential quarters. Tourists have nicknamed it , “The Gates of Hell”.]



    “Catharism completely rejected the Old Testament, and held the Gospel of John as their sacred text. Like other Gnostic groups, the Cathars held that the Old Testament God was synonymous with the devil, and proclaimed that there was another, higher, True God. … Catharism taught that there was nothing to fear after death, except for reincarnation. ”

    Old Testament = clan of berg = devil…Cathars were choped till the last one by the Catholic church… 😉

    • maria, “Old Testament = clan of berg = devil…Cathars were choped till the last one by the Catholic church…”

      What I believe to be true is what Christ Jesus said:

      Luke 24:27,44-47, “27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He [Christ] explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures…. 44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

      I believe He taught the truth. I do not charge Him to be possessed by Satan to teach lies as the scribes did or had lost his senses as His immediate family misconstrued (Mark 3:20-22).

      Therefore according to what Christ Jesus taught as recorded in that Luke scriptural passage above, which is the Old Testament is about Him, I would put it in this form:

      Old Testament = revelation from God = Christ

      God’s revelation is not the clan of berg and Christ is not the devil or any hermeneutical sense of those words.

      Of course, that is my God-given faith in which I rest upon the Truth who is Christ Jesus.

      Thanks for providing me with the opportunity to proclaim the gospel of our God and Savior Christ Jesus.

      LORD bless

  8. maria, “Old Testament = clan of berg = devil…Cathars were choped till the last one by the Catholic church…”

    Hi maria,

    My intent is not to engage in philosophic argumentation by my writing and quoting below. Though of course that is the freedom of others to do. Plainly put, your comment provided me with an exercise to convey my thinking on the matter, and I thank you for that.

    The Old and New Testament are about Christ. Christ directly teaches this understanding (see Luke quoted below). I trust Christ is not of the Father of lies and I do not charge Him with being possessed by Beelzebul (Satan) as the scribes. So when Christ teaches all of the Old Testament is about Him – I listen. The way I understand this it would be put:

    Old Testament = revelation from God = about Christ

    Luke 24:27,45-47, “27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures…. 44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

    It is commonly understood by Christians, aside from Roman Catholics of course, that the Roman Catholic church did not exist in the way we know it today until around the 16th Century mainly due to the formalizing accomplished by the Council of Trent. The schism of East and West did not even happen until AD 1054, and therefore prior and posterior to that date the Eastern Orthodox church has been a witness of the diversity of those that glorify Christ who has the name above all names (Philippians 2:9-11). There were institutions that were precursors to building that famed AntiChrist institution of Rome that we know today, but the gospel never was missing or in secret. The testimony of martyrs was not just spurred by the Roman empire, but by local churches who preyed upon believers of other churches, such as the one in Rome who preyed upon many. Such churches gone bad were taken by the enemy and they persecuted those bold with no shame to proclaim that Christ is LORD also testify to the diversity of believers through church history (see John Huss or Waldensians). This diversity is of one Spirit and one message who is our God and Savior Christ Jesus.

    ‘Catholic church’ itself is a good term for it means ‘universal church’ and that simply means all the people who believe and gather as a church (people) to worship God throughout the world and throughout time as ordained by God.

    Christianity is a public religion not based on people and their natural opinions. God truthfully is revealed to man, not the other way around. It is God who gathers His people to worship Him in a particular way. It is God who ordains the Church and the name ‘Christianity’ is a way of denoting the people that God has gathered to believe and worship Him. The name of such a people was first given to the church that gathered to worship God at Antioch in the 1st Century (Acts 11:26). Yet ‘Christianity’ is able to be anachronistic in referring to all who have believed and worshipped the one true living God since Adam and Eve. This is due to believers are accounted for and called to God in Old Testament times and Christ Himself teaches that the Old Testament is about Him. Christianity is not a new religion in the coming of Christ, but is rather the religion from Genesis to Revelation, that in Christ all has been promised in the Old and fulfilled in the New. This was purposed by God in His spreading of His gospel, that Abraham knew (Galatians 3:8), eventually from Jerusalem outward to all the nations.

    It is all about Christ. It is a revelation from God proclaimed publicly, not privately. God is not ashamed, and enables His people to not be ashamed of the gospel (Romans 1:16). Understand God’s revelation that He told His people to write accounting of His covenant to be their God and they to be His people (the Bible), and then when other understandings come along, such a Gnosticism, then it is clear that those ‘other understandings’ do not match the one message of scripture which is Christ. It is not about His people, that alone is by grace, but it is about Christ.

    Redemptive history incorporates a history of the enmity between the regenerate and unregenerate, so, there are only two basic understandings in the world. Socinianism, Paganism, or Pelagianism are of the natural man (his own works, rationalism, and emotivism). The spiritual man is made spiritual not be anything wrought by man, but spiritual due to the heavenly blessings by grace (undeserved favor of God) freely offered in the work of Christ Jesus (1 Corinthians 12-16).

    Thanks for providing this opportunity for me to share the gospel.

    LORD bless

    • that is odd. This post of mine did not post yesterday, but another shorter and more concise one did yesterday. I thought I had not posted this comment and deleted it. I saw the other comment of mine posted here yesterday and last night. Now that other one is gone and this one posted. It would not surprise me if it is my computer, but sometimes recently, on your site seeker my computer slows down to the point I am not able to comment. The letters type in extremely slow to the point that no longer will letters type in. When I surf the internet on other websites I am not having that problem. Even when I have your website up in another window. But when I come back it slows down again. Right now it is not that slow, but it does stick sometimes and I have to wait before I am able to type another letter. This has only started doing this within the last week maybe. Like I said I would not doubt my computer is the culprit. I thought I would say this in case anybody has encountered this problem.

      • i deleted the shorter post because i saw a longer version caught in the spam trap..

        • oh! That is what happened. Thank you for letting me know. I did not think this post went through either on how I had sent two. I thought something was wrong with my computer. I am glad it is not my computer that is on the fritz. That is a relief.

    • thanks for your thoughts, adirondack, very interesting.

      I’m not by far a scholar of the OT, but there is a contradiction between the sanguineous Yahweh that commands the slaughter of children and the teachings of Jesus for universal love that I can’t conciliate
      That’s why, I tend to think that the real teaching of Jesus – and that is what the gnostics/the cathars claim – was corrupted by the-same-as-usual, inserting the OT, not only as a preamble to the arrival of the Messiah, and so giving him a legitimization, but as part of the (new) religious system that wanted to give liberation form the “merchants in the temple”.

      • What if I told you Maria there is a family plotting to destroy your entire family and take everything they own .. in fact they are a tribe intent on raping and killing every man woman and child .. Love is compassionate and merciful .. but you cant negotiate with evil is a fierce defender .. Knowing their evil intent, I would leave none alive .. what you must understand Maria, those tribes appointed to die in the OT were hybrid offspring who knew and practiced only evil .. had the Israelites been faithful to God’s command to leave none alive .. there would be no purpose to this blog.

        • ok, Rev, the Canaanite are evil, so “kill the seed of evil.”
          but is every nation possibly evil, so that YHWH be the god only of his “chosen people”

          • With every fiber of my being I anticipate the unmericful decimation of the family tree of Rothschild .. every branch to the very root .. Leaving none alive

            • we are witness THEY-pyramid crumble one by one but we need to be alert b/c THEY-are-desperadoz in all fronts

      • Maria,
        That is completely understandable in how you are approaching this. For the sake of conscience you have to, and I would emphasize – you must.

        Without knowing some things on how you approach scripture it would be difficult for anybody to know exactly how you go about handling scripture.

        How about if I find out how you do it? How you approach scripture? By reflecting on our presuppositions we are able to understand how we ended up where we are in our conclusions. Not everybody picks up, or approaches, the bible the same way. For instance, some people are agreeable enough on their hermeneutics that they have codified the a hermeneutic that everybody in the group is able to agree upon. Two things here.

        1 – What is hermeneutics? It is: ‘the way we interpret’. It is a general term for interpreting anything in life. For our needs, there is biblical hermeneutics. So the question that biblical hermeneutics asks is: How do we interpret scripture? There are different ways in existence, but not all of these ways are helpful. We do not need to go into this all now, but I wanted to introduce the term.

        2 – What is this codification? When a person (singular) interprets anything on a basic level such a person forms ideas about what they are studying/interpreting. On a grammatical level there is basic codification to make sentences meaningful such as verbs and nouns. No need to get into these details either for that will lead us into an unnecessary digression. The point being is that when two and more people get together there is codification beyond grammar and language. Terms are defined that are agreeable to the group of people in order for them to effectively communicate. Would you agree with this?

        So I am not at this point asking you how you approach scripture. In other words, we are not yet breaching the surface as to your biblical hermeneutic (your way of interpreting scripture). What I am asking you is would you agree with (2) above. Does it sound possible to you that codification takes place, even on that basic level that I introduced in (2)? As I said, at this point I am not asking you any content of your codification. I am not asking how you conclude what you do. I am seeing how far into our presuppositions we have to navigate to get to a starting point that I understand of you.

        For instance, I think one of your presuppositions is: corruption took place. Could you lay out what those corruptions are for me? Am I correct to say that the corruption is the scripture itself? Yet you also say that Jesus was of the mind for universal love. Is that found in scripture at all? Or has all of that been corrupted as well. I am sincerely interested. As I opened this post, I understand the need of conscience. I know for sure that there are matters that I hold due to conscience. If you agree with that also, then we have begun to effectively communicate about matters that we both understand and practice.

        Question 1: Does it sound possible to you that codification takes place?

        Question 2: Could you lay out what those corruptions are for me? [if I am correction about any of those corruptions above, please let me know]

        In this instance, my presuppositions is that conscience is important, and that if I do not know how you approach scripture (your biblical hermeneutic), then I will not effectively understand your concerns.


        • I have been baptised in secret during the years of the communism & by vocation I’m truth seeker while my christen faith is more a family tradition than a fruit of years of study of the Old&New Testament. that’s my handicap but at the same time a benefit, since no dogmatisation could obscure my common sense in assessing the christian religion. I understand that by the time the apostols & their disciples were preaching the teachings of Jesus they needed to legitimise them using a previously existing religion&profecies, the jewish one. What I could not conceive is why a follower of Jesus teachings for universal love should be indoctrinated in & venerate the history of the “chosen people” of the jews (the Old Testament).
          Hope I could make my point clear. HNY, Adirondack! 🙂

          • That did help. Where do you get the teaching of Jesus is ‘universal love’? According to what you are saying, His apostles and disciples were using the preexisting religion of the Old Testament to make Him legitimate. I understand you say this kind of legitimacy did not need to happen because it involved a switching of His teaching of universal love for a ‘chosen people’ doctrine. Knowing that Jesus did not write the New Testament and His apostles and disciples did, then where do you find out Jesus’ teaching on universal love? For instance, if I wanted to reference this material where would I look or find this reference material?


            • although I’ve always heard referring to Jesus’ doctrine as “the introduction of the principle of the universal love”, I can’t cite any concrete text right now…I’ll do my homework and’ll write back 🙂

            • ” For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.”


              the law has been made for the men (Jesus’s doctrine & God, Abba=Daddy), not the men for the law (the chosen people’s doctrine & YHW)

              • I interpret that to mean:

                The Pharisee’s had added customs to the law given by God from the OT. Matthew 16:12 scribes when Jesus warned the disciples of the teachings of the Pharisee’s and Sadducees who teach the custom’s of men pretending they are the teachings of God. There are many places, especially the “Woe” passages when it is written about Jesus rebuking the Pharisees practices of works and not faith.

                The Sabbath was made for man, meaning it is a blessing not a curse for man. Genesis 3, ‘And God blessed the Sabbath and made it holy…’ Jesus who came to fulfill – meaning to do the whole law because it is love (the summary of the ten commandments is love) – pointed out the hypocrisy of the Pharisee’s of the very Holy One who is innocent and who Lord’s over the Sabbath.

                Two things Jesus points out about their lack of understanding in Matthew 12. Jesus Himself explains what He means:

                1 – They say Jesus is wrong for plucking the grains. Yet Jesus explains in Matt. 12:7 that they have condemned an “innocent”.

                2 – Jesus further points out in the next verse (v8) their lack of understanding by telling them He is God. How does He tell them He is God? He says the Son of Man, which is how Jesus mainly in meekness refers to Himself, is the Lord of the Sabbath. No mere man Lord’s the Sabbath, which is a day of the week, additionally a day that God blessed and made holy. Whoever Lord’s anything is the authority over whatever it is, and in this case, the Lording is over a day blessed and made holy by God. Only God has the authority, not only of the Sabbath, but of all days. No mere man has authority over a day(s).

                Can man say to the sun go up and come down? No. Man has no authority and does not rule over any day.

                Their lack of understanding is perspicuous. Jesus points out their lack of understanding in verse 7 “if you had known what this means”, then they would have known they were condemning an innocent who rules over the most holy day, i.e. Sabbath. Jesus did not say just days, but significantly he emphasizing to make a grand point just how greater (v6) He really is. He is so great He rules not just the days, but even the day, that God blessed and called holy. No mere man makes that claim without blaspheming to God, which the Pharisee’s knowing what Jesus taught eventually accused Him of saying He is God – they were right, but did not have the faith that Jesus is God. The Pharisee’s desired to earn their own way into heaven, which is not how any human gets into heaven. Only the free gift offered in the gospel of Jesus Christ who alone is the imputed Righteousness of a believer’s justification and thereby pardon before a Holy, Loving, and Just God.

              • When Jesus and the disciples were plucking grain they were following the law:

                Leviticus 19:9-10

                9 ‘Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the Lord your God.

                [Matthew 12:1, “At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.”]

      • THEY-merchant in Temple same THEY-now some even same names (can be traced &connect )
        quoting from THEY “is nothing new under the sun ”
        is true the OT is violent


    • thanks, Rev.
      the author of the video sticks to “what the Scriptures tell us.


      Yahweh is our God and Yahweh is One (Deuteronomy 6:4)
      Yahweh created the heavens and earth in six days and rested on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:11)
      We must love Yahweh with all of our heart, soul, and strength (Deuteronomy 6:5)

      Yeshua is the Word of Yahweh and His only begotten Son (John 1:1,14)”

      it’s normal he considers gnostics a heresy….

      Merry Christmas to all at FTM!

      • Michael Heiser is a little more in-depth ..

        • 6 hours is a long video, but I’ll try to look at it, thanks!

          I thought you suggested that the jews usurped from the very beginning the “revolution” Jesus wanted to bring to the this sense my comments about the Old Testament with its sanguineous God-of-the-chosen-people inserted into the Christian belief.

          I quote your post:

          So are you suggesting that the Edomites (the Cain seed) usurped the authentic Jesus’ “liberty movement” already with the 1º Council of Nicea, A. D. 325? and thus converting the Christian Church in another Edomite’s organization? Why? How? Thanks.🙂
          Maria, I am suggesting the Edomite Jews with Constantine were unable to destroy the “liberty movement” therefore created an alternative. Constantine ‘invited’ 1800 leaders to the Council of Nicea but only 300 attended. What of the other 1500?
          The other 1500 leaders had no interest in this deception.
          The terminology used in English translations of scriptures assists in this deception, the early followers of the Messiah were not JEWS neither were they CHRISTIANS.
          They were ISRAELITES and remained ISRAELITES as followers of the Messiah foretold by Moses and the prophets.

          Catholic Church Always Crypto Jewish
          The synergy between the Vatican and Talmudic Jews is in part explained by the fact that the Roman Catholic Church was established by crypto-Jews as a false “Christian” front for their Babylonian religion. Both Judaism and Catholicism are based upon Babylonian mysteries.

          If you want to get a sense of how far off English translations are from the original language, I recommend the two videos presented here ..

          Rev17 said this on October 2, 2014 at 12:37 AM | Reply

        • check out this, Rev:

          ” Practically without transition roman authorities switched from persecutions on all the Christians without exception to the prosecutions of “heretics”, that is those Christians, whose faith did not coincide with the orthodox version proclaimed to be the official religion of empire. ”

          Marion, 140 A.D.: “the interpretation of Marcion, openly opposing the Gospel to the Old Testament’s Law, and Jesus’ heavenly Father in turn to the “god of Jews” Yahweh. Marcion was excommunicated and expelled from the church community.”

          ” (1924) French researcher Paul-Louis Couchoud compared the version of epistles restored by Harnack with the long version included into the New Testament. He has demonstrated that the brief text published by Marcion was primary and original whereas the long edition of the epistles in the New Testament is spoiled by numerous inserts and the alterations sometimes completely destroying the thought of Paul, and is added by three so-called “pastoral” epistles which are obviously having no any attitude to Paul (1926)”

          • “In the survived marcionite prologues to epistles the preachers of Jewish-Christian synkretism are called “false apostoles” (falsis apostolis). It’s affirmed there that the Christians who have believed their sermon are brought “under the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (sub nomine domini nostri Jesu Christi) to “the Law and circumcision” (in legem et circumcisionem) or to “the Law and the prophets” (in legem et prophetas) – (von Harnack, 1924, 128*).”

          • “William Walker in his paper “The Burden of Proof in Identifying Interpolations in the Pauline Writings”: “We only know that the surviving text of the Pauline letters is the text promoted by the historical winners in the theological and ecclesiastical struggles of the second and third centuries. Marcion’s text disappeared – another example, no doubt, of the well-documented practice of suppressing and even destroying what some Christians regarded as deficient, defective, deviant, or dangerous texts. In short, it appears likely that the emerging Catholic leadership in the churches “standardized” the text of the Pauline corpus in the light of “orthodox” views and practices, suppressing and even destroying all deviant texts and manuscripts. Thus it is that we have no manuscripts dating from earlier than the third century; thus it is that all of the extant manuscripts are remarkably similar in most of their significant features. ”



            “He published the earliest extant fixed collection of New Testament books”


            “Marcion believed Jesus was the savior sent by God, and Paul the Apostle was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. ”
            “Marcion’s canon rejected the entire Old Testament, along with all other epistles and gospels of the 27 book New Testament canon because they transmitted “Jewish” ideas”

          • History.

          • Harnack was a German Liberal Theologian who denied Christ alone is the Savior, and instead he wrote about the ‘universal Father of God’, and the ‘universal brotherhood of man’. Liberalism in theology is different than “Liberal” Politics. Liberal Theology is basically Immanual Kant’s philosophy syncretized with Christian labels. Kant is considered one of the forefathers of Liberal Theology.

            I think Machen’s “Christianity and Liberalism” is a good, scriptural rebuke of Liberal Theology.

            LORD bless

          • I don’t think there is anyone who hates the old testament more than Christopher Jon Bjerknes with all due respect for his knowledge, he lacks understanding because he is blinded by his hatred for Jews, and he is proof how successful they have been in their identity theft.

            ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are ‘Yahudim’ and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan .. Rev 2


            Therefore his hatred is based on the belief that the Jews are who they claim to be.

            Nor do I agree with Lasha Darkmoon as ‘Christianity’ is a false religion based upon both the Masoretic OT translation and Greek NT translation of Aramaic, giving a false identity to Yahshua the Messiah.

            The Old Testament: For and Against — A debate between Christopher Jon Bjerknes and Lasha Darkmoon (Part 1)



      • Sounds like he’s describing the Celtic Enlil / Enki story

  10. curious:

    …recalls the catchars beliefs…


    Jesus on the God of the jews = YHW:

    “John 8:42 Context

    39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

    When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.”

    Jesus came to restore the lost connection between people and the Eternal Father and show them the path to pursue him.
    YHW is not that Eternal Father.
    Nor is the Old Testament part of the teachings of Jesus.


    Rev & adirondack:

    listen to this… – min. 18 on

    Rev: in this perspective I agree with you that religion is an opiate for the people…because it was constructed to be such, by repealing all elements that would give the direct connection between the soul of the individual and the God Creator.

    …if we have #fake news & info- manipulation today…imagine what was 20 centuries ago…those who defended the teachings & for that were not “politically correct”…were simply…declared heretics…the Scriptures were manufactured according to the needs of the system/the politically correct/the ruling oligarchy…and the status quo prior to Jesus’ arrival was preserved.

    (Rev: remember your post about the Council of Nicea and how it was corrupted – thanks to you I firstly started to think about such a possibility…

    • I am not sure how you concluded the Old Testament is not part of the teachings of Jesus; when the John passage you quoted, reads Jesus teaching from the Old Testament about Abraham.

      I am also unsure how you concluded Yahweh is not the Eternal Father for the same reason. Jesus says to the Pharisees in the John passage, that if Yahweh was their Father, then they would love Jesus. According to the passage, those people from the Eternal Father, who is Yahweh, love, more precisely, they love Jesus. Yet, Jesus says, since the Pharisees did not love Him (Jesus), the Pharisees’ father was the devil (v44). The devil is a created being who first makes his appearance in Scripture in the Garden mediating as a serpent (Revelation 20:2).

      I do not know where you live, but I hope you are staying warm! Today, it is very cold and snowy where I live. Good thing I have lots of work to do indoors. 🙂

      I will give a listen to the youtube you pasted, thanks.

    • Maria, I respect your search for truth but personally I consider the OT a valuable resource ..

      For you created my inmost being;
      you knit me together in my mother’s womb…
      My frame was not hidden from you
      when I was made in the secret place…
      Your eyes saw my unformed body;
      all the days ordained for me were written in your book
      before one of them came to be. Psalm 139

      I believe I am a spiritual being living in a physical body created by God and is why Yahshua said .. ‘man does not live on bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God’ .. He spent His entire life studying the OT .. anyone who dismisses so easily the wisdom to be found in the OT is a fool .. even if you think its all a myth or propaganda ..

      Consider Job .. Job engages in a lengthy theological discussion with his friends for 37 chapters in the attempt to prove his righteousness, Job finally has a personal encounter with God ..

      Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
      2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
      with words without knowledge?
      3 Brace yourself like a man;
      I will question you,
      and you shall answer me.
      Then Job answered the LORD:
      4 “I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
      I put my hand over my mouth.
      5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
      twice, but I will say no more.”
      6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:
      7 “Brace yourself like a man;
      I will question you,
      and you shall answer me.
      8 “Would you discredit my justice?
      Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
      Then Job replied to the LORD:
      2 “I know that you can do all things;
      no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
      3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
      Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
      things too wonderful for me to know.
      4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
      I will question you,
      and you shall answer me.’
      5 My ears had heard of you
      but now my eyes have seen you.
      6 Therefore I despise myself
      and repent in dust and ashes.” Book of Job

      My advice to you Maria .. pay no attention to any man .. you have only one Teacher.

      • Thanks, Rev.
        “OT a valuable resource” – for what?
        My attention towards the authenticity of what we now call the Bible was turned by your notes on the Council of Nicea 325 a.d. as a takeover/corruptionof the real christian teachings by the powers-to-be back in that era…
        Knowing the modus operandi of deception we observe today, I don’t doubt it was operative 2 000 ago. So applying just common sense it rings true to me what the heretic Marcion states: that judaism & the teachings of Jesus are two parallel religions that don’t have nothing in common but the geographic region of their diffusion.

        That’s why Jesus’s father (Abbi) is all love vs. YHW is a god of rules&obey,punishment&justice.

        For me it’s intrinsically controversial that the God of the Chosen people all of a sudden sends his son for everybody. and if he hasn’t sent him for everybody (?), but only for his chosen people what do the rest of us are meant to do in the equation…

        The OT + the NT preached altogether seems to me like a confused (and for profit, of “they”) compilation of two controversial systems of values.

        • ‘Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews..’ .. Acts 6

          During the Babylonian invasion many Jews fled to Egypt .. Under Alexander they became Hellenized .. Alexander was a disciple of Aristotle and his mission was to establish Greek philosophy and culture throughout the known world .. interestingly he died at 33 ..
          Greek philosophy is a religion and Plato, Socrates etc its high priests .. they worshipped the intellect .. Gnosticism is birthed from Greek philosophy .. the Sadducees were Hellenized Jews who also embraced Rome .. I suspect the Sadducees were transformed into the RCC at Nicea canonizing the Greek NT subtly changing the name Yahshua to Zeus/Iesous/Jesus ..

          There is clear evidence in the NT the original was Aramaic and Hebrew but they have either been suppressed or destroyed.

          The Hellenized Jews in Alexandria under Ptolemy requested scribes from Jerusalem to translate the original Hebrew scriptures into Greek around 300 BC resulting in the Septuagint .. Around 300 AD the Edomite Jews translated the Greek Septuagint into Hebrew resulting in the Masoretic where they modified or deleted specific prophetic verses concerning the Messiah .. the Septuagint is confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls .. what we are left with is a bastardized bible .. and what of the books that are missing from the bible .. the Jews celebrate Hanukah, the Maccabean Revolt yet they removed the book of Maccabees from the OT .. why? .. it helps to fill in the almost 500 year history as with the history of John Hyrcanus forcing the Edomites to convert .. then eventually replacing the Israelites with Edomites under Herod .. those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan .. Edomite Pharisees the fathers of Judaism .. Hellenized Edomite Sadducees the fathers of Christianity

          My point is you can debate the knowledge of God endlessly yet never know God .. would you trust someone with a degree in aerodynamics or would you rather fly with an experienced pilot .. for me there is a big difference in knowing about God and ‘knowing’ God .. this is the realm of personal encounter .. who cares what men think they know .. I want to know Him .. have a safe flight Maria

        • Alexander Reads About Himself in the Book of Daniel

          In 332 B.C. Alexander besieged and defeated the coastal cities of Tyre and Gaza in his march toward Egypt. During this campaign he turned toward Jerusalem. Alexander had already demanded men and supplies from the Jews, who were under the rule of Alexander’s mortal enemy, the Persian king Darius. The high priest hesitated, saying that while Darius lived they would honor their pledge. Alexander was angry and began a move on the city.
          Well aware of the danger, Jaddua asked the people to pray to God for His mercy and protection. Then, says Josephus, Jaddua had a dream as to how to entreat the Macedonian king. He and the other priests dressed in their priestly robes and, accompanied by others dressed in white garments, formed a pro-cession that went out of the city to a carefully chosen place to meet the king.

          Alexander then did the unexpected. Alone, he approached the high priest and members of the procession and greeted them.
          When asked by one of his generals why he welcomed this group, Alexander replied: “I did not adore him, but that God who hath honoured him with his high priesthood; for I saw this very person in a dream, in this very habit [garment], when I was at Dios in Macedonia, who, when I was considering with myself how I might obtain the dominion of Asia, exhorted me to make no delay, but boldly to pass over the sea thither, for that he would conduct my army, and would give me the dominion over the Persians; whence it is, that having seen no other in that habit, and now seeing this person in it, and remembering that vision, and the exhortation which I had in my dream, I believe that I bring this army under the divine conduct, and shall therewith conquer Darius, and destroy the power of the Persians, and that all things will succeed according to what is in my own mind” (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 11, chap. 8, sec. 5, William Whiston translation, 1981).

          Josephus records that Alexander then accompanied the priest into Jerusalem and the temple, where he “offered sacrifice to God, according to the high priest’s direction, and magnificently treated both the high priest and the priests.”
          Alexander’s visit was capped by a briefing from the book of Daniel, written several centuries earlier, which foretold the rise and conquests of Alexander. “And when the book of Daniel was shewed him, wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended; and as he was then glad, he dismissed the multitude for the present …” (ibid.)


  12. I was wondering what was the Devil for the Old Testament…not having heard of him much there and not being myself an expert in the materia…I found this:
    “I know what the standard Jewish approach is regarding “the Devil” (short version: he doesn’t get a mention, and we don’t believe in such a being – at least not in the way commonly talked about by Christian preachers). But according to the Christian view (across most denominations, as far as I can tell), there is some being called “The Devil” who possesses people and causes them to sin, etc. Where is he in what you call the Old Testament, and why would he just suddenly appear later?”

    • Again I would refer you to the book of Job considered a righteous man until he has an encounter with Satan .. this encounter serves to expose Job’s self-righteousness and finally acknowledging his true condition he experiences the reality of God .. ‘ I had heard of You by the hearing of the ear but now my eye sees you’ .. Maria all that you have heard about God is meaningless .. your spirit will not rest until it rests in the presence of God

    • Is he in the Garden of Eden story?

      • You were in Eden, the garden of God;
            every precious stone was your covering,
        sardius, topaz, and diamond,
            beryl, onyx, and jasper,
        sapphire,[a] emerald, and carbuncle;
            and crafted in gold were your settings
            and your engravings.
        On the day that you were created
            they were prepared. 
        You were an anointed guardian cherub.
            I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;
            in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
        Ezekiel 28:13-14

      • And Adam knew Hava his wife, who had desired the Angel; and she conceived, and bare Kain; and she said, I have acquired a man, the Angel of the Lord. And she added to bear from her husband Adam his twin, even Habel.

        ON THE

    • THEY are -callEvil-doers too
      in OT Gen. 6:5, 8:21 / Job 2:6/Chronicles 21:1 / Psalms 109:6 /Zechariah 3:1,2 /Isaiah 14:12-14 /Ezekiel 28:11-19

  13. Thanks, Rev, for all your inputs…I’m will study all of them…too poor knowledge (both academic&empirical) of God for now :(…I hope I’ll “fly” some day 🙂

    so, the OT speaks about the Devil only in Genesis? Have I understood correctly? thanks

    • My suggestion is to read through the Scriptures. It takes study and mediation on what is written, and even then, God sent teachers into the world who have been provided the time it takes to know them in depth (Leviticus 10:11; Nehemiah 8:7-8; Malachi 2:7; Luke 6:40; 1 Chonicles 25:8; James 3:1; Romans 12:6-8). Yet, the basic gospel message in a redemptive history is what all believers do know – have to know – in order to know who their God is and what He did for them, so that they may believe in the God that did what He did for them, and so that they will have the will to do what He instructs by faith and out of love (John 17:3).

      In regard to teachers, the Scriptures are like any other subject matter. There are people who have the time to study business, computer programming, sales clerk, car mechanics, carpentry, and plumbing, etc; and we call on them to help us or benefit from their understanding and know-how. Yet, the Word and Spirit has to work in the heart of a person, and without that happening, then no matter how many teachers or who teaches, the person will desire not the things of God, as will be cited below.

      Prayer is a must. Praying before reading the Bible is a prudent practice. Asking God, that oneself will know and understand His written Word is a must. This book is unlike other books for a pious life is a must; therefore, the Holy Spirit is a must. He has to be present in the life of the person who is handling the Bible with care. Without Him, then the truth and faith in knowing the Scripture will never happen (Acts 5:32; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; John 17:17; Ephesians 5:25-27; 2 Timothy 3:16).

      I do not agree with everything Rev says, but I will point out that if you reread his posts you will understand that he typed in other places, not just Genesis chapter 3, where Satan is in the OT.

      I hope in Christ that helps! 🙂

    • Satan is front and center in the Book of Job .. one of the most profound books in the entire bible .. satan’s role is clear .. a member of God’s divine council .. unwittingly dispatched to expose Job’s self-righteousness .. God is not interested in sacrifices or doctrine .. He wants your heart

      For I know the plans that I have for you,’ declares the Lord, ‘plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jer 29

    • Maria don’t be overly concerned about academics .. your humility is evidence you are close to God’s heart

    • “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

      Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

    • ‘this path, Rev?’ ..

      “How can we know the way?”

      “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14

      The problem with the Greek NT is the subtle imposition of the Greek mindset and the difficulty of translating the simplicity of Semitic/Hebraic culture/language. The Greek emphasis on knowledge, education elevates the intellect to a god like status and serves only to distance man from God.
      This superior status is evident in so called Christianity with its many divisions based on doctrine, they all have God in a box and a formula for salvation .. its not so complicated Maria .. He gave only two commandments ..

      “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

      5 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

      John 14

  14. This is really ‘off topic’ and I apologize, but considering it’s Kenneth Copeland, it kinda fits a bit… He has his own airport 4t2 (’42’),-97.4889514,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x864de6e5317507f7:0xc69b6e2fc09f9417!8m2!3d32.9828918!4d-97.4867627

    I imagine he’s a freemason also, and it’s obvious they use the scriptures as their playbook.

    Numerology: The numbers 14 and 42
    at 12:00 AM
    Posted by Doug McCollough
    “So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.”

    This scripture, Matthew 1:17 appears to want to highlight the number 14. Three cycles of 14 = 42, which this scripture also appears to want to highlight. Jesus Christ is 42 Generations from Abraham.
    Properties of the number 42


    According to R. Allendy, this number represents “the antagonism in natural cycles. Here, the Spirit opposed to the matter, the good opposed to the evil, continue their fight in the oscillations of the world and result into the Karma – 4+2 = 6. It is the Karma or the Providence in the evolution – 42 = 6×7”.

    J. Boehme calls this number “the Sky, place of the divine desire”.

    Number representing a time of suffering and test, according to the Bible.

    In Japan, the 42 is a sign wearing misfortune because it is told SHI-RI, that has for homonymous the death.


    The 42 generations of Abraham to the Christ in the Gospel according to Matthew and the 42 generations of David to the Christ according to Luke. (Lk 3,23-38)

    The gentiles will trample the holy city during 42 month. (Rv 11,2)

    The 42 months where it was given to the Beast to act and to blaspheme. (Rv 13,5)

    The famine of the time of Elijah lasts 42 month. (Lk 4,25)

    The little children mocked of the prophet Elisha. This one curses them and the fierce animals come out of the forest killing 42 of them. (2 K 2,24)

  15. 2017: Catholics and Protestants to commemorate Reformation Anniversary

    “Reformation 2017”. Indeed preparations are being made for something big.”

    Notice the lands of the world on the ‘sphere’ are all red I doubt that really means reformation or revolution of the people I think it means ‘communism’ one world …. also Kenneth Copeland mentioned again.

    “In front of the town hall, a big globe is placed, where the whole world is in red color – The color of reformation and revolution. In the middle of the globe, it says: “Reformation 2017”. Indeed preparations are being made for something big. In 2017, the protestant reformation celebrates 500 years.”

    Reformation Day is a religious holiday celebrated on October 31, alongside All Hallows’ Eve (Halloween)

    “In 2014 at a Charismatic Evangelical Leadership Conference hosted by Kenneth Copeland, Tony Palmer, an anglican bishop said: “The protest is over”, and encouraged to unity with the Catholic Church. The audience of many charismatic Christian leaders seemed to embrace this message.”

    • This is the Sphere within a Sphere that was at the World Trade Center.
      There is one at the Vatican as well as other countries. I know Seeker has posted on this before. It looks like a world giving birth to a new world?
      A round ‘egg’ of sorts……


    • October 31 /November 7 2017 = 100th anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia…

      • a fall in the market?

        • Perhaps, seems a lot of projects are due for completion now in 2018 and 2020 being a big deal for many as well, if they aren’t ‘delayed’ again.

      • That’s interesting too maria. It is the 100th year anniversary of Fatima, end of the Satanic Reign, so some say.
        Of course, this is ‘their’ script so it means something to ‘them’.

        A lot of numerology going on here with the 33 years…. Russia was always a big part of the Fatima prophecy too.


        Leo_XIIIAccording to legend, exactly 33 years (span of our Lord’s life) to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision. When the aged Pontiff had finished celebrating Mass in his private Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere. When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices – two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation:

        The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord: “I can destroy your Church.”

        The gentle voice of Our Lord: “You can? Then go ahead and do so.”

        Satan: “To do so, I need more time and more power.”

        Our Lord: “How much time? How much power?”

        Satan: “75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service.”

        Our Lord: “You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will.”

        33 YEARS LATER

        FatimaOn Sunday May 13th, 1917, the children were pasturing their flock as usual at the Cova da Iria, which was about a mile from their homes. They were playing when suddenly a bright shaft of light pierced the air. The lady spoke to them and said: “Fear not! I will not harm you.” “Where are you from?” the children asked. “I am from heaven” the beautiful lady replied, gently raising her hand towards the distant horizon. “What do you want of me?”, Lucia asked. ” I came to ask you to come here for six consecutive months, on the thirteenth day, at this same hour. I will tell you later who I am and what I want.”

        It was Mary’s final appearance, on Oct. 13, 1917 (exactly 33 years, to the day, after Pope Leo XIII’s vision), that became the most famous. An estimated 70,000 people were in attendance at the site, anticipating the Virgin’s final visit and with many fully expecting that she would work a great miracle. As everyone gazed upward, and saw that a silvery disc had emerged from behind clouds, they experienced what is known [as] a ‘sun miracle.’ Not everyone reported the same thing; some present claimed they saw the sun dance around the heavens; others said the sun zoomed toward Earth in a zigzag motion that caused them to fear that it might collide with our planet (or, more likely, burn it up). Some people reported seeing brilliant colors spin out of the sun in a psychedelic, pinwheel pattern. The whole event took about 10 minutes.

        With these apparitions at Fatima, God asked for the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope in union with all of the bishops of the world. Our Lady of Fatima said that if the Consecration of Russia was done, Russia would be converted and there would be peace. However, if the Pope and the bishops did not obey the request, Our Lady said that Russia would spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church and of Holy Father, the martyrdom of the good and the annihilation of nations.

        • thanks, intrigued.
          “Our Lady of Fatima said that if the Consecration of Russia was done, Russia would be converted and there would be peace. However, if the Pope and the bishops did not obey the request, Our Lady said that Russia would spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church and of Holy Father, the martyrdom of the good and the annihilation of nations.”
          sorry, that’s pure propaganda, i.e. the interpretation of Fatima’s legacy:
          on 13th of Oct. 1917 the bolchevick revolution was still to come, so there could not be any hint about the communism…while Russia of the tzars was Cristian for nearly 1000 years at the time.
          …catholic/western propaganda.

  16. “Reformation 2017, Indeed preparations are being made for something big.”

    the confession
    “In 2017, we must confess openly that we have been guilty before Christ of damaging the unity of the church. ”

    2017 Legatus Pilgrimage to Milan and Rome | October 18 – 27, 2017

    Reformation Day Tuesday, October 31, 2017


  17. “Is it not written in your Law, “I have said ‘you are gods’”?” (John 10:34)

    …and they want to wire us all to the web/chip us/transhuman us to downgrade us to a slave animals…

  18. great synopsis of history and views of Gnosticism vs. institutionalized / infiltrated official church:

    Graham Hancock – The Demiurge, Archons, and the Light of Gnosis

  19. the islam mystics, the sufis and the cathars (so dangerous for the official RCC) share the same knowledge:

    dove, baraka & God’s grace


    followers of Simon Magus, gnosticism, a magus/magician

    “The apocryphal Acts of Peter gives a more elaborate tale of Simon Magus’ death. Simon is performing magic in the Forum, and in order to prove himself to be a god, he levitates up into the air above the Forum. “

    • here why David Icke could be right, that all of us are God in potential:

      “This seventh power existed before the world, it is the Spirit of God that moved upon the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2). It existed potentially in every child of man, and might be developed in each to its own immensity. The small might become great, the point be enlarged to infinity.[19] This indivisible point which existed in the body, and of which none but the spiritual knew, was the Kingdom of Heaven, and the grain of mustard-seed.[20] But it rested with us to develop it, and it is this responsibility which is referred to in the words—”that we may not be condemned with the world” (1 Corinthians 11:32). For if the image of the Standing One were not actualized in us, it would not survive the death of the body.”


    “The purpose of this article is to demonstrate that the concept of reincarnation existed among the Pre-Christian Indo Europeans, and to examine if the christian/western counterarguments against reincarnation are compatible with the core Zoroastrian doctrine and beliefs.”

    …Zoroaster…Pythagoras (samotracian mysteries)…celtic druids…gnostics…((probably the authentic teachings of Jesus))…cathars&other “heresies” the Church fought so vehemently…not to mention the religions of the East…they all teach about an inmaterial soul that is subject to reincarnation in its cyclical progressive way of constant evolution…

    …I am quite a zoroastrian, I confess…:)


    • I do not follow any religion, I know them all, at least, the fundamental, but I am only of God, and I follow the path of Jesus.
      we could all reach perfection, but without recognizing God, without God, the One … the Earth would not even exist.
      I know what my previous life was, and that did not teach me any religion, religions especially, confuse people rather than guide them. But if you seek within yourself, in the end and deep down you will find God. and for that, we must be humble, not, submissive, we should not disfigure concepts, for that, they are already THEY.

      We can show the ways, but each of us choose, and the right, the one that leads us to the truth, the way of love, is not the easy.

      • Personally I find it confusing to “seek within myself” to find God, because I am not God. I am not attacking, just giving my personal opinion. I know some people are sensitive to when other people give their own opinion, not saying you are. I am respectful of what other people believe, though I am also quite sure I do not always meet the expectations of how others define “respect”. I do provide my own interpretation, as it seems you do, too.

        • perhaps I did not explain myself well, but I just wanted to say: to seek God, not, that you are God, to seek God within you, in the conscience that God has given us all.

          all those who have not sold their soul into the darkness, the devil, have consciousness, and there, you can find answers from God. Or perhaps, to you, Jesus is closer to you, and there is no better way than the way of Jesus, he has helped many people. you have to ask the question, and be silent to hear the answer.
          and sometimes we have answers before our noses and we do not look at them. in any case, it is a process, we have to identify the truth, too, through everyday life.

          true that it is easier if someone helps us, but very important to recognize which is the real help, and not cheating. the devil is always lurking so you do not find the truth. but the reality is that finding Jesus or God, is much easier than some make us believe.
          I do not interpret reality, I dedicate myself to writing to show the reality that I have lived, what I have seen through life, the experiences that led me to see what is happening in the world, not just me, but the whole world. All, absolutely everyone, we are in the same story, the history of the Earth.

    • maria, I do think you are a Zoroastrian., and so therefore interpret reality in accord with Zoroastrianism.

      • 🙂
        “Many Christian writers, including Lactantius, Augustine, Giordano Bruno, Marsilio Ficino, Campanella, and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, considered Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity.[14][15] They believed in a prisca theologia, the doctrine that a single, true theology exists, which threads through all religions. It was given by God to man in antiquity[16][17]”

        🙂 and of course that God is within us…it is Him/It who created us from his own substance…

        • “and of course that God is within us…it is Him/It who created us from his own substance…”

          What is being postulated has to do with “something” in a person and whether that something is the person or God.

          The above statement I quoted by maria is the kind of conclusion a person would have when the person interprets the “something” in their own self to be God’s substance, please correct me maria if I misinterpret what you are saying.

          My interpretation is the “something” is in the person, so therefore I conclude the “something” is the substance of the person and is not God’s substance. When I turn inward, I turn inward toward my own person. I do not turn inward toward God.

          Now somebody may say they do turn inward toward their own person but they may still conclude there is “something” inside their self that is God’s substance. My interpretation differs, for I say the “something” inside myself is only the substance of myself and is not the substance of God.

          • 🙂 it-s the other way around for me, adirondack.
            I know I have been created by & from God, so I have his light/energy/substance in me. But it depends only on me whether I will thrive back, consciously and with the determination and strength of my free will towards His/Its Light or I will lose myself in the deception.
            It’s not pretentious to say that God is within everyone of us, not at all, it’s the exact opposite!!
            The notion that I/we should incessantly struggle to find God within ourselves is much more requiring, IMO, than if we consider ourself simple external witnesses & admirers of God’s Greatness (i.e. there is no God’s substance within us we should constantly evolve spiritually thriving for)
            It’s a hard, constant, determinate work.
            …personally I know one day I will start that path…for now, I’ve “only read the title”, not even opened the book…:/

            • maria, “it-s the other way around for me, adirondack.
              I know I have been created by & from God,”

              Ok. I am glad you asserted this statement until I get to the “from” part.

              maria, “so I have his light/energy/substance in me.”

              If He is “in you”, then there is “something” in you that you call God. I call that “something” a person. That is where we differ I think, but I understand you do not call that substance (“something”) a person, but you call it God. Ok, so that part I understand about your understanding.

              maria, “than if we consider ourself simple external witnesses & admirers of God’s Greatness (i.e. there is no God’s substance within us we should constantly evolve spiritually thriving for)”

              For me, God is objective. He is external to me. Just like you are external to me, a bird, a rock, and any other person. God is a different Being who Has real personality, not the human kind, for He is a completely different Kind.

              I do not need the substance to grow in holiness. God grows me. God works in my life, changing who I am, by His power He recreates me. God is giving me more opportunities to choose and be free in the kind of things I can and can not do. My freedom increases; I am being created into a new creature. A new creature that will not be able to sin anymore, but that is not completed until Jesus returns.

              • I/we have the Divine Sparkle within us (=”“so I have his light/energy/substance in me.”).
                which makes us thrive for the Light/God…through our free will and so conscious actions.

                …in other words, what I say is that God created us like children with all our innate but not developed possibilities from the very beginning and all we have to do is search for his guidance.
                …what you are saying, it seems to and correct me if I’m wrong, is that God made us “as is” and only on the way He will be giving us upgrades, whenever and in the way He decides, in order to be able to search Him.

                …quite a difference here, imo. I prefer a by default generous parent, not a parsimonious and severe one.

              • maria, “I/we have the Divine Sparkle within us (=”“so I have his light/energy/substance in me.”).
                which makes us thrive for the Light/God…

                Instead of “makes ‘you'”, might a person read “motivates ‘you'”? Is make the same as motivate?
                The divine sparkle is within you. Where is the “Light/God” you are thriving for located? Is it a location? Or is it a state of being?

                maria, “through our free will and so conscious actions.”

                Are you saying ‘your’ free will is what you use to “thrive for Light/God”? Not only your free will but your conscious actions, too.

                maria, “…in other words, what I say is that God created us like children with all our innate but not developed possibilities from the very beginning and all we have to do is search for his guidance.”

                Why is it important to search for his guidance? Is the divine spark he guidance, or the Light/God that you thrive for the guidance? Or both maybe?

                maria, “is that God made us “as is” and only on the way He will be giving us upgrades, whenever and in the way He decides, in order to be able to search Him.”

                God did not make us “as is”. Man was made to mature in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness. God creates life, so any enjoyment of life, even in the future, is life created so the life is from God. Man was made to search and enjoy God and all of God’s works, such as creation and God Himself.

                God is infinite, so man being finite has the infinite to grow amidst and enjoy. This is an important point. Since man was created finite, then there is actually more out-there that man does not experience – an infinite more. Since man always experiences in a limited but wonderful manner, and the infinite goes on forever, then man will always have a new experience to look forward to because man is not infinite and so has an infinite number of new experiences to enjoy, know about, and love.

                Man was created very good, but even before the Fall, man was given new experiences, a wife (and the wife was given the husband), knowledge, righteousness, and holiness were continually maturing in mankind. Mankind by their own free-will and conscious actions live, desire, and know on their own. They did (and do) things on their own. Adam and Eve were made complete, whole, and perfect (without sin) and yet enjoyed even better experiences after they were made, and even before the Fall, so the experiences were better in a real holy, loving, fruitful, and good way. The new creation is even better in a real experiential sense. I prefer a generous parent, too.

                Yet there are people who do not want it better, would rather be cruel instead of generous, do not desire good conscious living, who suppress knowledge, and decide to do wrong things, not just to themselves but others. Why does the divine spark not work in these kind of people?

            • How do you handle God’s immutability?

              My assumption is God does not change, but according to you, a substance from God, a substance that was God (?), was put into man and the substance is no longer God (?) because the substance is now in man.

              I still have a few other questions. How do you understand the relationship of the substance from God that you write is now in man? My statement in the previous paragraph above may be too simplistic; so, I apologize ahead of time. It is how I understand what you are writing, so I would not be surprised if you could explain it differently.

              I want to do justice to your understanding. I think I accounted for how you said you are not God (there is no part of you that is God), but are created from God. So, that is no longer the direct question, because I understand what you wrote. What you wrote was clear and concise and I thank for that.

  22. “It looks like a world giving birth to a new world?” I agree and it is taking place during this feast of trumpets. . the nwo is over and they know it.


  24. “As above so below”:

    “[The Philosophomena, date unknown, but written supposedly by Hippolytus between the years 190 and 250 A.D., is the only remaining shred of teaching that is quoted directly from the works of Simon Magus. The following portion of Philosophomena (VI. 7-20, Refutatio Omnium Hæresium, 1859) is a refutation of “the system of Simon,” obviously written by an enemy of the Gnostic wing of early Christianity. Its value is in the setting forth of the teaching thus condemned. This text was printed in Lucifer in a series on Simon Magus, Vols. X-XIII.
    Simon, like the Egyptian Hermetists, held that all things are interrelated by correspondence, analogy and similitude — “As above, so below” being the teaching on the Smaragdine Tablet of Hermes. Holding this view, he naturally taught the age-old doctrine that Man, the Microcosm, is the Mirror and Potentiality of the Macrocosm, or God. ”

  25. question: why is Jesus Christ depicted with wings?



    “Although the majority of denominations within the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam do not believe that individuals reincarnate, particular groups within these religions do refer to reincarnation; these groups include the mainstream historical and contemporary followers of Kabbalah, the Cathars, Alawites, the Druze,[8] and the Rosicrucians.[9] The historical relations between these sects and the beliefs about reincarnation that were characteristic of Neoplatonism, Orphism, Hermeticism, Manicheanism, and Gnosticism of the Roman era as well as the Indian religions ”
    Origin, ‘De Pricipiis’:
    “‘Every soul has existed from the beginning; it has therefore passed through some worlds already, and will pass through others before it reaches the final consummation. It comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life.'[123] ”
    553 a.d. 2nd Concil of Constantinople and the banning of the teachings of Origin of Alexandria,_Concilium_Constantinopolitanum_II,_Documenta_Omnia,_EN.pdf:
    point 11: Anatema to…Origin.

  27. about the reincarnation of the soul according to the Church Father Origin (3rd c. a.d.) and how it was anathematised by Justinian (6th c. a.d.): :

    “His idealising tendency to consider the spiritual alone as real, fundamental to his entire system, led him to combat the “rude”[71] or “crude”[72] Chiliasm (see Christian eschatology) of a sensual beyond. His position on the literal resurrection of physical bodies is difficult, but in both the Contra Celsum and On First Principles, Origen affirms some form of bodily resurrection, but eschews the notion that earthly bodies will be raised, on account of their gross materiality. Origen believes that all spirits will be finally rescued and glorified, each in the form of its individual life, in order to serve a new epoch of the world when sensuous matter disappears of itself.[73] Yet he constrained himself from breaking entirely with the distinct celestial hopes and representations of Paradise prevalent in the Church. He represents a progressive purification of souls, until, cleansed of all clouds of evil, they should know the truth and God as the Son knew him, see God face to face, and attain a full possession of the Holy Spirit and union with God. The means of attainment of this end were described by Origen in different ways, the most important of which was his concept of a purifying fire which should cleanse the world of evil and thus lead to cosmic renovation. By a further spiritualization, Origen could call God himself this consuming fire. In proportion as the souls were freed from sin and ignorance, the material world was to pass away, until, after endless eons, at the final end, God should be all in all, and the worlds and spirits should return to a knowledge of God; in Greek this is called Apokatastasis.”

    N.B. a. Origin (184-253 a.d.)

    b. his views were anathematised more than 3 centuries later, only in 543-553, at the 2nd Council of Constantinople (the 5th Ecumenical Council), under the dictates of Emperor Justinian:

    “As a result of this condemnation, the writings of Origen supporting his teachings in these areas were destroyed. They were either destroyed outright, or translated with the appropriate adjustments to eliminate conflict with orthodox Christian doctrine. Therefore, little direct evidence remains to fully confirm or disprove Origen’s support of the nine points of anathema against him.

    The Fifth Ecumenical Council addressed what was called “The Three Chapters”[79] and opposed a form of Origenism which truly had nothing to do with Origen and Origenist views. In fact, Popes Vigilius (537–555), Pelagius I (556–61), Pelagius II (579–90), and Gregory the Great (590–604) were only aware that the Fifth Council specifically dealt with “The Three Chapters” and make no mention of Origenism or Universalism, nor spoke as if they knew of its condemnation…[23]

    The Emperor Justinian denied apocatastasis, making it the ninth of the ten doctrines in his edict against Origen in 545, and later that year, the doctrine was the fourteenth of the fifteen at the council in Constantinople that condemned Origen.[80][81]”'s_influence_on_the_later_church

    “By far the most important work of Origen on textual criticism was the Hexapla, a comparative study of various (6) translations of the Old Testament.”


    the last two paragraphs…

    curious, Iran & Uigur China:

    • At its height in the sixth and seventh centuries, Manicheism was probably the most widespread religion in the world, with members found from Spain to India and China. However, Manicheans were almost everywhere in the minority. Suffering religious persecution under increasingly intolerant kingdoms, their religion eventually disappeared. Manicheism was most successful among the nomads of Central Asia, where it was declared the official religion by the king of the Uigur Turks in 762, and survived until the sixteenth century. Today only a few followers of neo-Gnostic New Age movements still revere the writings of Mani as scripture. Nonetheless, subtle influences of his ideas can be found throughout the history and doctrines of Christianity and Islam.

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