Pope Francis: Satan is “more intelligent than us”

https://www.rt.com/news/413020-pope-francis-devil-satan/

Pope Francis has warned that Satan is an evil force who is “more intelligent” than mortals and will “make your head spin.” He urged Christians not to let the Devil into their heads.

“He is evil, he’s not like fog. He’s not a diffuse thing, he is a person. One must not talk to Satan, if you start talking to Satan you are lost, he is more intelligent than us,” Pope Francis said during an interview with Catholic television channel TV2000, which was published online by Italian newspaper La Stampa.

“He always pretends to be well-mannered with us. He is well-mannered with us priests, with us bishops. He comes in and it all ends badly if you do not notice this in time,” he said.

The pontiff’s comments come nine months after he urged priests to use exorcism if they hear confessions indicating demonic activity. He said at the time that priests should exercise caution when determining whether a person is suffering from a mental disorder or demonic influences, advising them to work with psychological professionals when coming to a decision.

Pope Francis speaks about the Devil more than his recent predecessors, previously referring to him as an evil physical presence in the world. He has used various terms to refer to him, including “Satan,” “the Evil One,” the Seducer,” “Beelzebub,” and “the Great Dragon.”

———-

speak for yourself!

so the progressive pope believes in a literal satan..must remember that next time somebody tells me how cool francis is..

401

~ by seeker401 on December 23, 2017.

49 Responses to “Pope Francis: Satan is “more intelligent than us””

  1. Satan cleverly seduces. It is ‘consent’ that thwarts a human Soul. Silence is tacit consent. https://youtu.be/UHNd-eLe7VA

  2. Francis is cool like that. He speaks out against Satan, and he has the Karana variation hand sign down pat, too. Pretty soon everybody will be taught signs, maybe even to get into secret societies – oh wait that exists already. Everybody’s got a gig.

    https://seeker401.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/yoga-mudras-in-orthodox-christian-art-does-it-indicate-a-hindu-buddhist-influence/

    Funny show. All the boys needed to learn the hand signs, but eventually they opened the club to women, also:

  3. His comments about Satan is coming from a liberal Pope. Satan is very real.

    Chris
    Owner CEL Financial Services
    IRS Registered Tax Preparer
    Registered bonded California CTEC Tax Preparer
    http://www.taxprepfillmore.com/

  4. He is saying that anyone intelligent enough to argue against religion is Satan.

  5. So yes, Pope Francis is not stupid either, and he knows a lot about his boss Lucifer and how many heads he has working for him, to ruin the human being.
    And although in public Francisco said a few months ago, that the mother of Jesus wants to be in the shade, and quiet, humble without prominence, knows that the mother of Jesus writes books. And by the way, important testimonial books for the knowledge of those truths that they have hidden for thousands of years, about God, about Jesus, about the Mother of Jesus and the archangels, about how the human being has come to total disorientation , about lucifer and many of his devils. Books about the truth of which hardly anyone cares to know its content.
    However, many devils have read, some of those books.

    God bless us.

    • The name Lucifer never belonged to Satan
      http://www.franknelte.net/article.php?article_id=218

      • The empire of Lucifer has an extensive hierarchy. In my city, as far as I know, there is no Lucifer’s church, but there is Baal’s. And they walk around the town as if it were theirs, and the minions of this church are committing all kinds of crimes without stopping, besides, integrating citizens of all branches of society and each day is more numerous. and of course, all of them have run out of soul, and they consider themselves animals but they do know how to get money.

    • Humans are livestock by Papal Decree: papal bull Unam Sanctam 1302: HUMAN BEING From Latin Humanus= “a lesser/inferior man or woman defined legally as an animal and/or monster as distinct from the ancient (pre Vatican) Roman term homo = man “. A key rule of Law from the 14th Century describing a fundamental legal fiction –that is the notion of an inferior man or woman as an animal and therefore not subject to the laws of free men, but the laws of property. http://tomremington.com/2016/06/11/homo-vishnu-ignoramous-defined/

    • Jesus said those in the kingdom are not born of woman. Matt 11:11

      So, if we presume Jesus was in the kingdom, he didn’t have a mother.

      Goodbye, gnostic goddess-worship.

      • I do not understand … maybe it’s because of the translations … there are many parts of the Bible that I do not find sense … read literally.
        but I do know that Jesus had a mother, whom he loves very much, I think among other things, because without her, he could not have been born of a mother, on Earth, because nobody but her wanted to be his mother. Of course, the role of mother of the creator of a world they were going to inhabit, everyone had already clear that it would not be easy.

        • You say that because you have not been born again. Those born of the spirit know the spirit, those of the flesh know the flesh.

          • Thanks for your interest, Internet Censors Must Die

            Love, the search for truth, and intuition, have led me to surround myself with human beings, to find myself with God himself, with Jesus, and with his angels,.
            I was on the verge of death several times, and thank God, I survived the serious injuries caused to me by the adversaries of love, shortly after birth, and this does not stop.
            for the moment I know I had another life on Earth. I even saw the faces of all my children of that life, many children, and different colors of eyes, skin and hair. even an orange girl, eyes and hair, with a lot of orange freckles, beautiful!
            and Thank God, I know that I still have many years left to live, and I deduce that much to learn. I am sure that I still need to know, how it is, to be happy, but thank God, I also know that I will get to know happiness on Earth. The truth, and Love, with a capital letter, I already found them.
            As a child, I asked to speak with God, to find Love, and the truth …
            God does not miss anything of what has happened, what happens, or will happen.

  6. What Frankie says and what Frankie means are two different things .. as a Luciferian Frankie is exercising the Luciferian doctrine of reversal ..

    “The Prince of Darkness . . . made Adam, whose soul was of the Divine Light, contributed by the Eons, and his body of matter, so that he belonged to both Empires, that of Light and that of Darkness. To prevent the light from escaping at once, the Demons forbade Adam to eat the fruit of “knowledge of good and evil,” by which he would have known the Empire of Light and that of Darkness. He obeyed; an Angel of Light induced him to transgress, and gave him the means of victory.”

    Here, Pike asserts that the proto-human, Adam, was created by the “Prince of Darkness,” which is of course to Luciferians the Yahweh of Genesis, and that he was freed from bondage by an “Angel of Light,” which is clearly Lucifer. In this rendition of the Fall we see an inversion of the Biblical story of the Garden of Eden where evil is called good and good is called evil. Furthermore, Pike claims that Adam’s soul came from “the Divine Light” which of course he means the Luciferian Consciousness released into humanity following Lucifer’s expulsion from heaven.

    Gnostic Explanation of Yahweh Lucifer & Creation
    http://www.overlordsofchaos.com/html/freemasonry_5.html

    • thanks, Rev. I searched who stays behind that site but could not find it.

      well, argumentum ad contrarium = what this article implicitly suggest is that, so, YHW (the one who sends his chosen people to go back and massacre women and children) is the good guy?…

      …hmmm…debunking the debunkers…struggle for our sous,,,

      • JESUS AN ESSENE

        Moses and war horrors, pg 86

        Criticism would willingly suggest that Moses, who married a Midianitish woman, Zipporah; whose father-in-law was Jethro, the high priest of the Midianites, and who had hospitably received him when in exile, fleeing for his life from Egypt; and whose two sons, Gershon and Eliezer, were half Midianites, was not likely to have given such cruel orders against the people among whom he had lived for many years. Humanity, also, might hopefully rejoice to believe that the whole history is utterly false and untrue. But the ultra orthodox will insist upon our accepting the hideous narrative in all its naked horrors. They have only recently assured us, in the most solemn manner, that even such stories as those of the unholy massacres of the Midianites and other people against whom the Israelites waged remorseless carnage, is “incontrovertibly the actual historical truth.” 2

        2″Declaration on the truth of Holy Scripture,” signed by about forty clergymen of the Church of England, and published in the London Weekly Times of December 25th, 1891

        http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/jae/jae03.htm

        http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/jae/jae03.htm#page_86

        http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/jae/jae04.htm

      • I would also like to say that although I do believe the Hebrew Masoretic text of the Tanach or Old Covenant is indeed the oldest and overall most reliable source of scripture that we have, I also want to caution that the lying pen of the scribes has not kept the Masoretic text without fault. There has been several areas where the translators of the Masoretic text purposely changed scripture to fit their own theology.
        Don Esposito. Hebraic Roots Bible (Kindle Locations 78-81). Congregation of YHWH Jerusalem. Kindle Edition.

        • thanks.
          so, what do you think, Rev, is the story of the blood thirsty YHW true/authentic or not?

          • “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
            By man his blood shall be shed

            3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. 7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
            8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, 9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. Genesis 9

            The covenant made with Noah proves the confusion caused by translation .. understanding the meaning of relevant Hebrew words reveals the intent .. first nowhere in this covenant is permission given to kill .. not even an animal .. permission is not given to take the life of an animal .. properly understood permission is given to eat an animal when it dies a natural death .. those who take the life of either man or animal will be held to account.
            So how do we reconcile the unrestrained slaughter of ‘every man, woman and child’ and the slaughter of animals with ‘THOU SHALT NOT KILL’ when the animals and ALL the descendants of Noah have been promised protection under covenant .. I am convinced the original scriptures have been corrupted for the purpose of legitimizing genocide on a global scale .. I also have no doubt concerning the identity of those responsible .. Zionists and Jesuits are working towards the same agenda .. Luther’s reformation was spun off to create the Scofield Bible for the purpose of brainwashing Christianity into supporting the creation of the state of Israel .. Trump is not Cyrus as they suppose but Herod the Great .. builder of the Temple ..

            The Mystery of Esau or Edom

            The book of Jubilees contains this same account of Isaac’s words to Esau, after Jacob had fraudulently stolen his blessing. It contains this remarkable prophecy:

            “Behold, apart from the dew of the land shall be your dwelling, and apart from
            the dew of heaven from above. And by your sword you shall live, and you will
            serve your brother. And it will happen WHEN YOU BECOME GREAT [at the
            End Time!], and you will remove his yoke from your neck, that THEN you will
            SURELY SIN COMPLETELY UNTO DEATH, AND YOUR SEED WILL BE
            ROOTED OUT FROM UNDER HEAVEN” (Jubilees 26:34).

            Esau and the Latins and Romans

            Louis Ginzberg in his Legends of the Jews gives us additional information about Esau, connecting him and his posterity to Rome. According to the traditions Ginzberg relates, Rebekah suffered such severe pain during her pregnancy that she went to Shem and pleaded with him to inquire of God concerning the cause of her distress.

            “And Shem replied: “My daughter, I confide a secret to thee. See to it that none
            finds it out. Two nations are in thy womb, and how should thy body contain them,
            seeing that the whole world will not be large enough for them to exist in it together
            peaceably? Two nations they are, each owning a world of its own, the one the Torah,
            the other sin. From the one will spring Solomon, the builder of the Temple, from
            the other Vespasian, the destroyer thereof”‘ (Legends, 1968, vol. 1, page 314)

            Spain has been staunchly and violently Catholic, apostate in the extreme, and doubtlessly a part of the body of Esau. However, the Mother and Fountain of all persecution and relilgious apostasy has its source in Rome, and Roman Catholicism. Rome, also, fulfills the words of Edras that ‘Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the one that follows.’

            ‘They [Esau and Jacob] will never be in the same estate. Esau will vaunt lords, while
            Jacob will have Kings. They, Israel and Rome, are the two nations destined to be hated
            by all the world. One will exceed the other in strength. First Esau will subjugate
            whole world, but in the end Jacob will rule over all’ (Legends, vol. 1, page 314)

            Ginzberg further relates that

            ‘God will call out to the Messiah: “Roar at this monster that devours the fat of the
            nations, that justifies its claims for recognition through being a descendant of
            Abraham by his grandson Esau, the nation that forgives all for the sake of money
            [as Luther enumerated in his Bull], that kept Israel back from the study of the
            Torah, and tempted them to deeds that are in accord with the wishes of Satan”‘
            (Legends, vol. 3, page 167)

            Esau was very influential in Rome. No doubt that “Rome” in a very real sense epitomizes the “way of Esau.” In fact, the “book of Jasher” contains the following pertinent information:

            “And the children of Chittim [Cyprus, Phoenicia] saw the valor of Zepho [a valiant
            descendant of Esau], and the children of Chittim resolved and they made Zepho king
            over them . . . . Zepho reigned over the whole land of Chittim and over the land
            of Italia 50 years” (p.186).

            Later in the book of Jasher, we read that great battles arose between the children of Chittim and Edom,

            “and Edom became subject to the children of Chittim. And the children of Chittim
            ruled over Edom, and Edom became under the hand of the children of Chittim and
            became one kingdom from that day. And from that day they could no more lift up
            their heads, and their kingdom became one with the children of Chittim” (p.251).

            So the Rome-Esau connection is verified! The children of EDOM or ESDAU literally intermarried with the Italians, mixed with them, and they become ONE PEOPLE! Thus Esau also stands identified as the people of Italy, the Romans, and the well spring of the Roman Catholic religious apostasy!

            Esau, like Jacob, was a mighty man of renown in ancient times. He was an explorer and “wanderer,” as well as a mighty “hunter.” He and his descendants, also, founded or were part of the founding of such ancient world empires as that of Rome, Troy, Tyre, and Carthage , as well as Spain and the Ottoman Empire.

            “The Age of Esau”

            According to prophecy, this “rivalry” was to characterize the ongoing relationships of these two people throughout historical time. Finally, the “age of Esau” will be replaced by the “age of Jacob” or “Israel.” The book II Esdras in the Apocrypha speaks of this prophecy:

            “‘What will mark the parting of the times? Or when will the end of the first or the
            beginning of the second be?’

            “And he said to me, ‘From Abraham to Abraham, for from him sprang Jacob and Esau,
            but Jacob’s hand held Esau’s heel from the beginning. For ESAU IS THE END OF
            THIS AGE, AND JACOB IS THE BEGINNING OF THE ONE THAT FOLLOWS. For
            the beginning of a man is his hand, and the end of a man is his heel” (II Esdras 6:7i-10).

            Where Is ESAU in
            Biblical Prophecy?

            http://triumphpro.com/esau-edom-in-prophecy.htm

            Was Esau’s Descendants in Rome?
            http://12tribehistory.com/was-esaus-descendants-in-rome/

            • thanks, Rev. I read the first part, later will read the rest.

              “I am convinced the original scriptures have been corrupted for the purpose of legitimizing genocide on a global scale .. I also have no doubt concerning the identity of those responsible .. Zionists and Jesuits are working towards the same agenda .. ”

              when has this corruption occurred? can we establish the time for sure?
              why have amongst the first christians, although they knew very well the OT, existed wide groups who did not accept the OT YHW be the God of the NT, the “abba” Jesus spoke about? (many gnostics, Marcion, later bogomils and cathars?…all declared heresies by the official church…all claiming no mediator (institution whatsoever) between man and God was required?

              thanks!

              Marry Christmas!!

              • Maria, you raise questions .. that raise more questions and suspicions .. returning us to the scene of the crime .. Alexandria

                The Septuagint is the oldest known text 300 BC.. a Greek translation of the Hebrew original ‘no longer existing’ we are told .. this entire story based on a pseudepigraphic letter and the Babylonian Talmud .. the critical question is .. where are the original Hebrew text we are told no longer exist?

                The Early Christian Church used the Greek texts[43] since Greek was a lingua franca of the Roman Empire at the time, and the language of the Greco-Roman Church (Aramaic was the language of Syriac Christianity).
                The relationship between the apostolic use of the Old Testament, for example, the Septuagint and the now lost Hebrew texts (though to some degree and in some form carried on in Masoretic tradition) is complicated. The Septuagint seems to have been a major source for the Apostles, but it is not the only one. St. Jerome offered, for example, Matt 2:15 and 2:23, John 19:37, John 7:38, 1 Cor. 2:9.[44] as examples not found in the Septuagint, but in Hebrew texts. (Matt 2:23 is not present in current Masoretic tradition either, though according to St. Jerome it was in Hosea 11:1.) The New Testament writers, when citing the Jewish scriptures, or when quoting Jesus doing so, freely used the Greek translation, implying that Jesus, his Apostles and their followers considered it reliable.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

                This is false as we now know more than 800 Hebrew texts were found at Qumran with only fragments surviving .. but evidence that Yahshua and the apostles who I strongly believe were Essenes would have used those Hebrew texts .. many not included in the so called bible but are quoted or mentioned in the NT.

                Then we have the Masoretic text 300 AD further translating the Greek Septuagint to Hebrew by Masorite/Edomites .. previously discussed as corrupt

                The Ethiopian Bible contains 81 books as opposed to 66 books in ‘approved’ bibles .. why would so many existing books be rejected ??

                2 Maccabees 2

                We know from the records that Jeremiah the prophet instructed the people who were being taken into exile to hide some of the fire from the altar, as we have just mentioned. 2 We also know that he taught them God’s Law and warned them not to be deceived by the ornamented gold and silver idols which they would see in the land of their exile. 3 And then he urged them never to abandon the Law.
                4 These same records also tell us that Jeremiah, acting under divine guidance, commanded the Tent of the Lord’s Presence and the Covenant Box to follow him to the mountain where Moses had looked down on the land which God had promised our people. 5 When Jeremiah got to the mountain, he found a huge cave and there he hid the Tent of the Lord’s Presence, the Covenant Box, and the altar of incense. Then he sealed up the entrance.

                Nehemiah’s Library
                13 These same facts are found in the royal records and in the memoirs of Nehemiah, who established a library and collected the writings of David, letters of the kings concerning offerings, and books about the kings and prophets. 14 Judas also collected the books that had been scattered because of the war, and we still have them. 15 If you ever need any of these books, let us know, and we will send them.

                19 Jason of Cyrene has recorded in five volumes the story of Judas Maccabeus and his brothers, the purification of the great Temple, and the dedication of its altar. 20 He has described the battles with Antiochus Epiphanes and with his son Eupator, 21 and he has told of the heavenly visions that appeared to those who fought bravely and enthusiastically to defend Yahudiym.

              • The Hebrew Account of Hiding the Ark, the Sanctuary and the Treasures of Solomon’s Temple

                Whereas the Essenes were the custodians of the documents of Qumran in the 2nd century BCE to the 1st century CE near the Dead Sea, these documents, authored or co-authored by Shimur HaLevi, one on Ibex Skin, one on a seven foot Copper Sheet baked in porcelain clay, a Silver Scroll, yet to be discovered and the latter engraved on two white marble tablets, are accepted documents that antedate the Essene community at the time of Christ by five centuries. They stand as a class of writing by themselves….

                http://www.biblesearchers.com/temples/jeremiah1.shtml

              • ‘Abba’ ..

                7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.” 8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

                ‘I and the Father are one’ ..

                ‘If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father’

                And coming into the parts of Caesarea of Philip, Yahshua questioned His disciples, saying, Whom do men say Me the Son of Man to be? And they said, Some say John the Baptist, and others Elijah, and others Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He said to them, But you, whom do you say Me to be? And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Messiah, the Son of the living Elohim. And answering, Yahshua said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.

                For this reason also, YAHWEH highly exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name, that at the name of Yahshua “every knee should bow,” of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and “every tongue should confess” that Yahshua Messiah is YAHWEH, (the Son) to the glory of YAHWEH His Father. (Isa. 45:23)

                The Preexistence of The Messiah
                http://www.yahweh.org/publications/articles/preexistence/preexistence_messiah.pdf

                • thanks Rev.
                  where this quote comes from?
                  “For this reason also, YAHWEH highly exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name, that at the name of Yahshua “every knee should bow,” of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and “every tongue should confess” that Yahshua Messiah is YAHWEH, (the Son) to the glory of YAHWEH His Father. (Isa. 45:23)”
                  this? https://www.bible.com/bible/1/ISA.45.23.kjv …don’t see it there.
                  thanks (don’t have much time these days, later will read carefully all your posts)

                  • the Hebrew name is Yahshua .. both Father and Son’s names have been changed more than 7000 times .. why?

                    According to kjv .. Jesus is Baal

                    Hebraic Roots Version .. translated from Aramaic

                    2:11 and “every tongue should confess” that Yahshua Messiah is YAHWEH, (the Son) to the glory of YAHWEH His Father.

                    Don Esposito. Hebraic Roots Bible (Kindle Locations 42770-42772). Congregation of YHWH Jerusalem. Kindle Edition.

                    Strongs Concordance .. Philippians 2:11

                    G2424 Greek

                    Ἰησοῦς
                    Iēsous
                    ee-ay-sooce’
                    Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: – Jesus.
                    Total KJV occurrences: 975

                    H3091 Hebrew

                    יְהוֹשֻׁעַ יְהוֹשׁוּעַ
                    yehôshûa‛ yehôshûa‛
                    yeh-ho-shoo’-ah, yeh-ho-shoo’-ah
                    From H3068 and H3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (that is, Joshua), the Jewish leader: – Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare H1954, H3442.
                    Total KJV occurrences: 218

                    REFERENCES THAT LORD IS BAAL
                    1) Baal –literal meaning: “ Lord.”
                    (Oxford Dictionary of World Mythology, by Arthur Cotterel ,page 21)
                    2) Lord – is the translation of two Hebrew words : “ baal” and “adon”. (Biblical Dictionary and Concordance of the new American Bible, page 127)
                    3) Baal – (Hebrew “baal ” , Lord) – one of numerous local gods among ancient Phoenicians and Canaanites. (The Scriber Bantam English Dictionary)
                    4) The word “Baal” means Lord (The Illuminate 666, by William Josiah Sutton, page 98)

                    5) “Baal” as we have seen signified “The Lord”. (The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, page 26)

                    6) Baal – (Lord, possessor, husband) 1. Appears in the Old Testament with a variety of meanings:master or owner (Judges 19:22 and Exodos 21:28, 34), husband
                    (Exodos 21:3 and II Samuel 11:26) 2. Usually, however it refers to farm god of the Phoenicians and Canaanites, responsible for the crops, flocks, fecund farm families. Its locality had its own Baal. (
                    Handy Dictionary of the Bible, edited by Merill C. Tenny , copyright 1965 by Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan)

                    7) Baal –The Hebrew noun ba’al means master, possessor or husband… In general, Baal is a proper name in the Old Testament and refers to a specific deity, Hadad , the Western Semitic storm-god, the most important deity in the Canaanite pantheon. (New Bible Dictionary, 2nd edition, p. 109)

                    • Rev17, Are you aware that you use German Criticism, which started in the 19th century in order to come to your conclusions? I raise the question not critic German Criticism. I was simply wondering if you are aware that you apply its’ school of thought.

                      German Criticism (GC) is also known as Liberal Theology, or the Historical Critical School. It started in the 19th century, but continued strong into the 20th century. Its’ application is still around, but it had been on the wane since the last century. 18th century German Pietism and Immanuel Kant’s philosophy had a big hand in giving rise to GC.

                      Amongst the many things German Criticism propagated, one such postulation from its’ school of learning was language vocabulary is locked into philosophy (one-to-one). For example, according to German Criticism, Greek language is Greek philosophy: a one-to-one postulation. So for example, GC assumes the use of Greek language by the Apostolic Fathers (AF) means the Apostolic Fathers strictly used Greek philosophy. AF may well have used Greek philosophy to demonstrate their Biblical ideas, but it does not always mean their use of Greek language, or Greek philosophy, proves AF only knew the Greek philosophic worldview. That is a huge leap that GC has never proven to be true.

                      German Criticism (GC) strictly focused on language vocabulary to prove its’ postulation, but GC is unable to demonstrate “the use of vocabulary” means “a use of ideas”. My main question was: are you aware that you apply 19th century German Criticism?

                      I have brought it up before, but you did not respond. I concluded therefore, aside from the fact you do use GC, but I also concluded you are not aware that you do use GC. There are other comments that you make that also demonstrate either you are aware of GC, or you are not aware, but do draw from its’ depository of learning. In the future, if I see these other references to GC in which you make, which do not necessarily have to do with GC epistemology of language-philosophy correspondence, but are GC none the less, then I will point them out to you just to show you what I mean.

                    • Clarify from 1st paragraph: “I raise the question not critic German Criticism.”

                      Should read: “I raise the question not to critique German Criticism.”

                  • ““every tongue should confess” that Yahshua Messiah is YAHWEH, (the Son) to the glory of YAHWEH His Father. ”
                    thanks, Rev.
                    I’m always very suspicious. the source you cite is a bible edited by an NGO titled “congregation of YHWH”…well, from their site and affiliates, what we can see is that (they) have at heart very much Israel, the Holocaust etc ((their)) favourite subjects:
                    https://coyhwh.wordpress.com/category/israel/

                    no wonder their statement that the NT God is in fact YHWH!…they literally say: “We challenge all those who consider themselves to be true believers to ask themselves which Congregation they belong to. The one by Yahshua set down in 30 ad, or the one by Constantine in 325 AD. The two are vastly different. One was a Hebrew Congregation with a Hebrew Savior that was totally Torah observant. The second was a counterfeit, lawless church sealed by the decrees of Constantine” http://www.coyhwh.com/en/aboutus.php

                    N.B!! Jesus = a “Hebrew Saviour”!!! not for the whole humanity…resembles the concept of “the chosen people”…an ONG that edits free books…I see…who takes advantage of such interpretation of he NT?…sorry, I’m too suspicious…

              • maria, “why have amongst the first christians, although they knew very well the OT, existed wide groups who did not accept the OT YHW be the God of the NT, the “abba” Jesus spoke about? (many gnostics, Marcion, later bogomils and cathars?…all declared heresies by the official church…all claiming no mediator (institution whatsoever) between man and God was required?”

                They were not declared heretics because they “claim[ed] no mediator (institution).” It is a matter of historical record, and proper contemporary theology, as to why Marcion, Gnostics, and others were declared to be heretics.

                They are declared heretics because they reject the Person of Jesus Christ. Who is the Person of Jesus Christ? He is the God-man. He the God, the one and only, who saved His people.

                Q. Why do people need saving?
                A. God, who is eternal, is transgressed by man’s sin; therefore sin transgresses the Eternal. No man is perfect, except the Lord Jesus Christ, and so their corrupt nature sinning against God eternally is punished eternally. Sin eternally transgresses against God, because God, who is eternal, is being transgressed. God has no parts; He is theologically revealed to be simple (has no parts) and whole. Sin therefore can not transgress one part of God, but the whole of God in eternity is transgressed by man’s sin.

                The righteous punishment against a transgression that goes on for an eternity is a punishment that goes on for an eternity. Sinful man eternally against God, because their sin transgressed the eternity of God, such being the nature of sin is therefore rightly eternally punished. Man is finite; the sin itself in man and who is man in man’s fallen state, such sin enacted by man transgresses the Eternal who is God.

                Man will undergo the eternal punishment in one of only two ways due to the eternally transgressing sin found in the very being of man. First, either man himself will be eternally punished. Or second, God in His lovingkindness gracefully descended to earth to take the eternal punishment in place of sinful man. God did descend in being the Person of Jesus Christ, who being not only fully man, but also being the eternal God was able to completely be punished eternally on the cross. Those who reject who the Person of Jesus Christ is, and the work accomplished by Him in their stead will therefore on their own receive the eternal punishment for an eternity, because man is not God and will have to pay for their eternal sin for an eternity. Yet, those who believe in who the Person of Jesus Christ is, and the work accomplished by Him in their stead will therefore not receive the eternal punishment, because The Christ took the punishment for them in His eternal Being, since He is the one and only unique God-man, and such people are therefore saved by the grace of God alone.

                • “They are declared heretics because they reject the Person of Jesus Christ.”
                  really? who did say that? could you quote the source, please? thanks. I can recall many said Assad gased with sarin his own population, even the Nobel winners white helmets, but did it really go that way?

                  Merry Christmas to you, adirondack. God bless!

                  • I wrote in the same comment who Jesus Christ is. Gnostics, and others like them, reject who He is and the accomplished work He did in our place. All you have to do is compare your understanding with the understanding I provided, and anyone is able to notice there is a difference.

                    LORD bless

                  • adirondack, what gnostics say (and many christian esoteric movements, as well as many of those proclaimed heretics) is not, as you state, that Christ did not save the man. They argue, instead, that Jesus Christ save man by dissolving the contract the primordial man Kadmon made with Satan. That was what he did after his death on the cross and going down to hell. Not that before Christ we had an intrinsic sin from our elders and/or we are sinners by nature (as you state, and so, for you if a newborn baby dies that’s because he/she has sinned &/$·/··”)…but because there was a contract with the “Demiurg” (YHWH, which is not the Universal God, who is Jesus’ and our Father) which maintained us slaves to this world and made it impossible to man to strive towards the Universal Creator.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon#Gnosticism

                    Much of those beliefs are still visible in the icons of some parts of the orthodox christianity:

                    • Correct. There is a difference between Gnostics and Strictly Biblical Believers as to who Jesus The Christ is and His accomplished work of salvation.

                    • a. may I ask you what biblical movement/branch are you a follower of? just curious. thanks.
                      b. how can we know who’s interpretation beholds the truth?

                    • a. I am a disciple of the Person Jesus The Christ who is the Son of God, the second Person of the Trinity, so He is God who took on the addition, though God is never added to for He is infinite, but God was once not in the Person of Christ who is God and man. God taking on a man’s body at a specific time in history fulfilled the love of the Father promised since the Fall in the historic garden of Eden and decreed before the foundation of the world. By applying through the Holy Spirit the blessings He merited, The Christ delivers throughout redemptive history, i.e. the Bible, believers who in the current era are called the church, for they are brought into a new life of worshipping God. In the Old Testament, believers received salvation through a promise that their salvation will be fulfilled by God and a bloody substitutionary atonement. Believers before the full revelation in bodily form was revealed the Person of Jesus, were truly saved into a life that glorifies and worships God. Since Christ had not come yet, they were taught under the ceremonial law, which is more obscure than the full revelation, but sufficient to reveal how God saves them and He does so by His Almighty power and the promised substitutionary blood atonement, which in the fullness of time was revealed to be the Lord Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, believers anticipated The Christ’s coming. In the New Testament era, believers retrospectively are revealed The Christ, and anticipate His second coming, which will complete the work, i.e. new creation, He inaugurated at His resurrection.

                      I am not quite sure what you are asking pertaining the “Biblical movement/branch” I follow. The Biblical movement/branch does not shape or detail who I follow.

                      b. Only the Holy Spirit is able to witness in the heart of man the truth confirmed in the Scriptures.

    • Frankie is exercising the Luciferian doctrine of reversal ..

  7. Shaking my head over everything happening in the world today……and can only conclude, We aren’t in Kansas anymore ToTo! 🙂

  8. Edom Through the Centuries of History

    The fact of the matter is that the early emperors of the Roman Empire were not really Roman at all. In fact, none of them were even from Italy, but rather from the Balkans, an area closely associated with certain branches of the house of Esau, or Phoenicia and the kingdom ruled by Tyre, which Jewish records indicate was also descended from Edom. The chief god of the Phoenicians was, believe it or not, one Ousoos, or none other than Esau! As Dr. Ernest Martin comments,

    “The truth is, Rome by this time (Constantine) in history had become a SEMITIC (Edomite) EMPIRE for all practical purposes. The Jewish historians and scholars saw these things happening in front of their eyes, and they called attention to them
    in various ways in their later writings.”

    According to The Historians’ History of the World:

    “Diocletian permanently introduced eastern forms of government. Until his time the outward appearance of the emperor had only a passing air of easternism, but with Diocletian this character of government was established for all time to come. From Diocletian the white bandeau or diadem, borrowed from the east, became the distinctive sign of the ruler, while formerly the purple raiment had been the sole sign. Diocletian and his successor Constantine introduced the remaining eastern regal ornaments. The emperor Aurelian had indeed set them the example here” (Dr. H. W. Williams, Vol. 6, p. 435).

    By the time Constantine moved the capital of the empire from Rome to Constantinople, the whole court was essentially Babylonian/Edomite in its structure, ornaments, trappings, and religion. Note the following quotation by Adam Clark in his Commentary on the prophecy of Isaiah 34, which we will investigate a little later:

    “Now the major part of the ROMANS are EDOMITES, who profess [falsely] the law of Jesus. The Emperor Caesar CONSTANTINE was an EDOMITE, and so were ALL the EMPERORS AFTER HIM. The destruction of the TURKISH EMPIRE is also comprehended in this prophecy” (Adam Clarke Commentary, Book of Isaiah, p. 237).

    The spirit of Esau is a lust for power and money, even as the spirit of Ishmael is the desire for pleasure. These two rejected sons from the Abrahamic lineage, anciently joined together through marriage, have spread their evil throughout the world. We see it coming to great influence in the Hellenistic culture foisted off on the nations by Alexander the Great. Beginning with Constantine and the Roman empire centered in the east (Turkey), the spirit of Edom is even more prominently demonstrated, complete with ecclesiastical authority.

    The Edomite influence in Judea, from the time of John Hyrcanus on through the war with Rome, was something of a turning point for the house of Esau. Many times they had attempted to overcome their Israelite cousins, and indeed came perilously close to doing so on certain occasions. It was, however, during the Herodian era, more than any other single time period, that we see the Edomites conniving their way into the fabric of Jewish life, setting the stage for the future direction the descendants of Esau would take, a pathway that would bring them squarely into the center of the modern world of the 21st century, as we shall soon see!
    What really emerges out of this crucial time-span is, at it were, two Zions–a true Zion people genuinely descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and a false, COUNTERFEIT ZION people of Esau’s lineage. The Edomites, in this instance, are pretenders. They did not inherit the birthright, nor did they receive the blessing of the firstborn. These all went to Jacob and his children. They must, therefore, in some way, get their hands on what Israel has, because they feel cheated–cheated by Jacob and cheated by God! Do not forget that Esau and his descendants are determined to retrieve for themselves what was lost to Jacob. And above all things, this is true with regard to money, and it is true with respect to power and control. Keep these facts squarely in mind as we continue in our study. Remember that Esau and Jacob were TWINS, and that from them would come two different manner of people. In most respects, the descendants of these two brothers seem to be the same people in appearance–it is their nature, however, that is so different.

    That Edom would eventually inhabit the Promised Land and interpose itself in the affairs of God’s true people, was specifically predicted by the prophet Ezekiel. Note these words, many of which have already come to pass, and indeed which are extant at this very time in history:

    “You mountains of Israel, hear the world of the Lord…Because the enemy has said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession…Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side…and you are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people…Therefore thus says the Lord God; Surely in the fire of My jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against ALL IDUMEA (EDOM), which have APPOINTED MY LAND INTO THEIR POSSESSION with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey…But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to My people Israel; for they are at hand to come. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and you shall be tilled and sown…and I will settle you in your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and you shall know that I am the Lord (YHWH)” (Ezek. 36:1-3, 5, 8-9, 11).

    Precisely as prophesied, the descendants of Esau did indeed, over a period of time, insinuate themselves into the land of Israel, and they are there today. In many instances, the very leaders of the modern Jewish nation have been Edomites, or at least of Edomite extraction, and no one personifies this kind of evil character more than Shimon Peres, a man who has sought for years to sell Israel down the river! These intruders and pretenders continue to be the enemies of the true Jewish people of Yahweh, working at times openly, but more often behind the scenes, to impose political, economic, and religious control upon Israel, including all the twelve tribes of Jacob throughout the world!

    http://albores.net/csp/esau_2.htm#TURKEY

    Disclaimer .. ‘Jewish’ is invalid terminology .. Semitic Hebrew or Israelite are authentic

  9. The Solidification of Rabbinic Judaism

    Septimus Severus was the first emperor to govern Rome who was not of what we call Roman racial stock. He and his descendants were Phoenicians and with a mixture of Syrian stock. We will see in the second part of this book that this racial make-up of the Severides (who governed the Roman Empire from C.E. 193 to 235) was one of the reasons the Jews fared so well. In actual fact, the Jewish authorities began to reckon that the Roman emperors were a brother people in race to the Jews themselves.

    http://www.askelm.com/people/peo010.htm

    Lucius Septimius Severus Augustus

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus

    The Race Change in Western Europe 11

    Simon Magus, in going to Rome, came among his own type of people. While in his time there remained a thin veneer of old Latin stock in the west, most of the population of Rome and Italy by the 1st century was made up of Chaldeans, Syrians, Phoenicians, Edomites and Samaritans. Italy, by the 1st century of our era, had become a Semitic country.

    The Jewish Holdout Against Idolatry

    For all practical purposes the nationalities of the Moabites, Ammonites and Edomites (Idumaeans), ceased to be reckoned as distinct peoples any longer in the Middle East. Their areas were, as we have explained earlier, reverted into a type of desert environment and peoples from the peripheral lands (the desert Arabs) came into these unpopulated regions. This is when the Idumaeans and other nations around Palestine disappear from history and become a part of that group of races who blended in with The People That History Forgot.
    That does not end the matter, however, especially with the Idumaeans (or Edomites). This is because the Jewish authorities kept up with the migrations of their brethren the Edomites (Edom or Esau was a twin brother to Jacob and their descendants were kin to the Jews). The Jews reckoned that many of the Edomites migrated west, even into North Africa and Rome.
    One of the chief gods of the early Phoenicians, according to Sanchaniathon who was the first historian to write about them, was “Ousoos,” who is clearly identified with Esau, whose other name was “Edom” (“Red”). These people were called “Red” after their first king who was probably red-headed (not because they had red in their complexions).

    http://www.askelm.com/people/peo020.htm

  10. The Race Change in Western Europe

    This evidence comes from historical and archaeological records which have been accumulated by some of the world’s most recognized historians, men who have devoted their whole lives to the study of Roman history. In the following pages of this book I will quote at length from these historians in order that no one could possibly charge an “out-of-context” evaluation on the material that will be presented. It is hoped that the longer quotes (which I feel are important) will not prove laborious reading for the non-professional. They are necessary evidence for the student of history.

    The principal scholar to whom credit is due for discovering this race change was Professor (Tenney) Frank of John Hopkins University who died in 1939. It was in 1916 that he contributed his classic research on the race change in Italy and the western provinces. What he wrote is still recognized today as a first class presentation of the matter. His essential facts come from inscriptional evidence which he presented to prove his case. Scholars today rank him among the great Roman historians such as Mommsen and Rostovtzeff (and he well deserves to be). His conclusions have never been successfully challenged as any common sense student of history would admit. But, just like Professor Goodenough in cataloguing what he considered to be Jewish archaeological remains has not been given the proper attention for his work, Professor Frank’s early researches have not been given the equal attention in the last forty years that they deserve. This book in part is written to revive the historical and archaeological information that Professor Frank and others discovered in the early part of this century.

    The lack of attention does not mean that Professor Frank is not respected for his academic abilities and his contributions to the understanding of social and economic matters in the Roman Empire. The problem today is the fact that so many scholars are afraid to tackle the subject of race in history (or changes of race) because the climate for unemotional discussion is not available even in the universities. Too many people are so sensitive to the subject of “race.” In evaluating such things the terms “superiority” or “inferiority” often enter the discussions by emotionally motivated individuals (even scholars) so the subject of “race” is not a popular one today.

    But this attitude needs to be changed. Let me say at the outset that in my view there is no such thing as “superiority” and “inferiority” in race as anyone with common sense would observe. But there are demonstrable differences in temperaments and attitudes existing among all races of peoples (though there are always exceptions to any rule and stereotyping a race is not always proper). But no one would argue that the temperament of the Finnish people (as a recent television episode of 60 Minutes showed) with their very private and subdued emotional attitude to life, have the same temperament as the Spanish people who proverbially are characterized as showing effervescence in temperament. The point is, both peoples (as all people on earth) are “superior” in representing themselves as a necessary (and a desired) part of the human race to which we all belong.

    http://www.askelm.com/people/peo011.htm

    Race Mixture in The Roman Empire

    https://ia801903.us.archive.org/23/items/jstor-1835889/1835889.pdf

  11. many comments to this thread to make…while finding the time…a great quote here on point…about the teachings of Jesus in the hands of the earthly church/ edited during councils scriptures…great monolog!! a full reading suggested…enjoy..

    http://bigeye.com/broskara.htm

    The Legend of The Grand Inquisitor, From The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

    ….
    “In the pitch darkness the iron door of the prison is suddenly opened and the Grand Inquisitor himself comes in with a light in his hand. He is alone; the door is closed at once behind him. He stands in the doorway and for a minute or two gazes into His face. At last he goes up slowly, sets the light on the table and speaks.

    “‘Is it Thou? Thou?’ but receiving no answer, he adds at once. ‘Don’t answer, be silent. What canst Thou say, indeed? I know too well what Thou wouldst say. And Thou hast no right to add anything to what Thou hadst said of old. Why, then, art Thou come to hinder us? For Thou hast come to hinder us, and Thou knowest that. But dost thou know what will be tomorrow? I know not who Thou art and care not to know whether it is Thou or only a semblance of Him, but tomorrow I shall condemn Thee and burn Thee at the stake as the worst of heretics. And the very people who have today kissed Thy feet, tomorrow at the faintest sign from me will rush to heap up the embers of Thy fire. Knowest Thou that? Yes, maybe Thou knowest it,’ he added with thoughtful penetration, never for a moment taking his eyes off the Prisoner.”

    ….
    “And we alone shall feed them in Thy name, declaring falsely that it is in Thy name. Oh, never, never can they feed themselves without us! No science will give them bread so long as they remain free. In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet, and say to us, “Make us your slaves, but feed us.” They will understand themselves, at last, that freedom and bread enough for all are inconceivable together, for never, never will they be able to share between them! They will be convinced, too, that they can never be free, for they are weak, vicious, worthless, and rebellious. Thou didst promise them the bread of Heaven, but, I repeat again, can it compare with earthly bread in the eyes of the weak, ever sinful and ignoble race of man? And if for the sake of the bread of Heaven thousands shall follow Thee, what is to become of the millions and tens of thousands of millions of creatures who will not have the strength to forego the earthly bread for the sake of the heavenly? Or dost Thou care only for the tens of thousands of the great and strong, while the millions, numerous as the sands of the sea, who are weak but love Thee, must exist only for the sake of the great and strong? No, we care for the weak too. They are sinful and rebellious, but in the end they too will become obedient. They will marvel at us and look on us as gods, because we are ready to endure the freedom which they have found so dreadful and to rule over them — so awful it will seem to them to be free. But we shall tell them that we are Thy servants and rule them in Thy name. We shall deceive them again, for we will not let Thee come to us again. That deception will be our suffering, for we shall be forced to lie.”

    http://bigeye.com/broskara.htm

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